Warrior stats question.

[Vask]

Hey guys.
Would like to get some info from experienced warriors (specially with PvP) out there concerning warrios stats.

I was wondering if its viable to do a build like Str/Agi, Agi/Str or Str/Sta instead of the "default" Sta/Str.

My current talent build is this:

Arms Talents (31 points)

Deflection - 5/5 points
Improved Rend - 3/3 points
Tactical Mastery - 5/5 points
Improved Charge - 2/2 points
Deep Wounds - 3/3 points
Improved Overpower - 2/2 points
Impale - 2/2 points
Sweeping Strikes - 1/1 point
Axe Specialization - 5/5 points
Improved Hamstring - 2/2 points
Mortal Strike - 1/1 point

Fury Talents (20 points)

Cruelty - 5/5 points
Improved Demoralizing Shout - 5/5 points
Piercing Howl - 1/1 point
Improved Battle Shout - 4/5 points
Enrage - 5/5 points


So, I do have 10% crit chance with talents (using axes, but I can change that to polearms if I find some good weap like Blackhand Doomsaw). With my default agi its like ~14%-15% chance to crit. I was wondering if it would be viable to invest on agi gear trying to get like 20% crit.

If so do you recommend Agi/Sta for more survivability or Agi/Str for bigger and more constant crits ?

Or Agi really isnt the way to go with a warrior (remember my talent build) ? Then I would ask if its better Str/Sta or Sta/Str.


To sum up whats your stat build, and which one do you think would be better for pure PvP ? I really don't care for effectiveness on PvE, all I'm aiming for is the better build I can have for PvP.

I know that I need to do instance runs to get the better gear out there, but I can do this with my friend, no problem.

Really appreciate any help you could give me here, thanks :)

[Matkun]

I have an Agi and Sta/Str build. I just grab anything that has Agi and Sta or Agi and Str on it.

At level 48 right now, I have approx +100 agi, +50 str and +50 sta, something along those lines, give or take +-10.

Using Axe Spec and Cruelty, my unbuffed Crit rate is ~22%. Dodge rate is almost 12%.

I favour the agi build because I feel it gives me more tradeoff then STR for damage.

We ran some tests again with my Pally friend, and found that

~14 STR gives ~2 straight DPS added from Power. (I may be remebering it wrong and it maybe 1 DPS, which is even worse)

~14 Agi gives ~1% crit rate (lower for classes with higher natural agi, ie: my warrior gets about 0.9% crit rate from 14 agi, while Paladin gets about 1%), about ~1% dodge rate, and 30 armor.

1% more crit rate means a straight 2% more damage, plus the damage from Deep Wounds.

2 DPS is a straight 2% more damage when your DPS is around 100.

So, the way I figure it, I get more damage out of investing into Agi then I do into Str, especially since my DPS when buffed is close to surpassing 100.

Another way of looking at it is this:

Str gives you a linear boost to damage, while Agi gives you a percentage boost to damage. So at lower levels STR is much better then AGI for damage, but as you near and surpass 100 DPS on normal attacks, STR gives more and more diminishing returns while Agi always gives you straight percentage bonuses.

Also, Agi does start giving diminishing returns past a certain point. I think I get ~0.75 or 8% crit rate for 14 agi now at past +100 to my natural.

And lastly, if I get a crit in PvP with a normal hit or with a Mortal Strike, that's 1/2 to 1/5th of that person's HP gone, dependent on class. Considering most of the time I don't get many hits in, I feel that maxing out my crit chance to suddenly lay people out, IE: Maxing burst DPS, gives the best benefits.

[UFTimmy]

Great research, Matkun, thanks.

[Ellestar]

Using Axe Spec and Cruelty, my unbuffed Crit rate is ~22%. Dodge rate is almost 12%.
...
1% more crit rate means a straight 2% more damage, plus the damage from Deep Wounds.
AFAIK weapon crits deal double damage?
Then DPS will be multiplied by
DPS_multiplier = (1+new_crit_chance)/(1+old_crit_chance)=1+crit_chance_difference/old_crit_chance
It will be more like 1.23/1.22, or ~0.8% increase from 1% more crit rate for your 22% crit

But IMHO if you want to maximize your average damage, then you can just
1) calculate your "real" DPS as DPS*(1+Crit_chance) - Start_DPS
2) add (or remove, then negative number) Delta_Str Strength, calculate your new Str_DPS (as in (1))
3) add (or remove, then negative number) Delta_Agi Agility, calculate your new Agi_DPS

Next, if ((Str_DPS-Start_DPS)/Start_DPS/Delta_Str) > ((Agi_DPS-Start_DPS)/Start_DPS/Delta_Agi), then you need more Str. Overwise, you need more Agi.
It's slightly off, but good enough. Also, it's more precise with a smaller adjustments.

Edit: Ops, forgot to switch Agi_DPS and Start_DPS. It's correct now.

Also, one thing to consider - consistency obviously favors winning side, so if you generally win, then it's advantageous for you not to resort to random things like crits. So, you can favor Str more in this equiation, despite slightly lower average DPS.

[Firecrak]

If you over gimp your strength in favour of agil...you stand to lose more than you gain. Getting a few lucky crits here and there does not make up for having more consistant hits/dps. Honestly, gimping your str is not a good idea.

[Hogart]

AFAIK, stands for what?

[Kakarot]

AFAIK, stands for what?
as far as i know

[Ellestar]

Corrected formula

[Matkun]

It will be more like 1.23/1.22, or ~0.8% increase from 1% more crit rate for your 22% crit

Also, one thing to consider - consistency obviously favors winning side, so if you generally win, then it's advantageous for you not to resort to random things like crits. So, you can favor Str more in this equiation, despite slightly lower average DPS.

Yeah, sorry, miscalculated, it does look like 1% more crit rate adds about 1% more damage.

I double checked the STR formula too, it is 14 ATK power = 1 DPS, so 14 STR = 2 DPS.

This is all approximately btw, since diminishing returns do kick in based on various natural stat limits and so on.

Though Deep Wounds also does have an +damage effect, that is very hard to calculate to see how much added DPS it gives, due to it's timers, though we can do best case situations..

Bleh, tired now, will analyze later.

And to add, in my personal group PvP experience, crit rates are most important, just due to the fact that they allow me to burst DPS and kill non-tanks in 2-3 hits. When a lot of the time I only do get a maximum of 4-5 or so swings on a target, before I'm CCed somehow or snared, doing maximum damage in the few hits I can get in is very important.

Sadly, for warriors in most one-on-one duels, we are on the losing side, just due to how the class is designed. I can tie out with my guilds mage, priest, and rogue is defeated just thanks to Improved Overpower. If I get 2-3 crits in during the fight, it pretty much guarantees me the win, while if I don't, then most of the time I lose out in the endurance fight.