Scaled Sand reaver leggings

[KonkyDong]

Ok heres whats up, shamman in my guild are having a HUGE problem with warriors getting this item meaning that no warrior will have a chance to get them for a long long time. I have tried for hours to discuss this openly with them getting nowhere. Now knowing that every warrior know exactly what they are doing in this guild I call for your help!!!! Give me more points so they cant throw that damn int mail crap in my face!
ty:D

[Basti]

Ok heres whats up, shamman in my guild are having a HUGE problem with warriors getting this item meaning that no warrior will have a chance to get them for a long long time. I have tried for hours to discuss this openly with them getting nowhere. Now knowing that every warrior know exactly what they are doing in this guild I call for your help!!!! Give me more points so they cant throw that damn int mail crap in my face!
ty:D

Same problem in my guild. The point is, give the item to a warrior and the hole raid benefits, give the item to a shaman and one single person benefits in relation to farming an PvP. I'm sorry for Shamans but in Raids they're pretty much healers only and have to wear healing gear.

[Traumatize]

Hm we don't have that problem at all.
Shamans doesn't even want them at all, same with CoD etc.

[bierbaum]

WTB ur shamans :(

[Nozerac]

Isn't that a bigtime hunter item? Doesn't any of the hunters want that?

[KY503]

No, hunters are all about the dragonstalker's leggings. I guess this is one of those times I'm glad I play an alliance warrior eh? Those leggings were about to rot before I took them.

[socratic]

These legs are as much Shaman legs as a Crown of Destruction is a shaman crown. Shaman have no reason to take this over any warrior.

This game is almost entirely PvE at this point, and if you feel you need Shaman DPS to help you progress, then your raid has serious problems. Shaman drop totems and heal, These pants won't help then do either of those better.

[Basti]

These legs are as much Shaman legs as a Crown of Destruction is a shaman crown. Shaman have no reason to take this over any warrior.

This game is almost entirely PvE at this point, and if you feel you need Shaman DPS to help you progress, then your raid has serious problems. Shaman drop totems and heal, These pants won't help then do either of those better.

That's right but try to explain that to a shaman!

[Fudgy]

Who has more DKP wins. Problem solved. That said, shamans should be able to understand about taking different armor types. I mean how many elemental shamans are running around with some cloth pieces?

Anyway, shamans are on edge now because Blizzard keeps screwin them over. Give them a break. It's not their fault Blizzard turned the shaman class into something shamans never wanted to be.

[Anduryondon]

Ask them if they want to roll on Dark Edge and then let them decide again, if these legs are only shaman legs ^_^

[Otzo]

Well in our raid we have clear prioritized loot as Blizzard planned them for the classes. Like sure fallen crusader leggins are beter for Warriors in the raid but some of our paladins want em so their melee-dps grinding gear becomes superiour (crit, stre and int ftw) and so on.

Same thing went with Crown of Destruction till enough hunters had it (or had dragonstalker/giantstalker) and so on. :P just be patiant.

[Trixx]

Just get rank12 imotbh leggings for warriors!

[KonkyDong]

Thanks for all your responses, doubt our shaman will ever agree:/ Also our raid leader sees a problem with this because he thinks that druids/elemental shaman will try and get obvious caster loot IE staff of the shadowflame.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[sokkeh]

Thanks for all your responses, doubt our shaman will ever agree:/ Also our raid leader sees a problem with this because he thinks that druids/elemental shaman will try and get obvious caster loot IE staff of the shadowflame.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

lokamir any1?

[khan3817]

sup, im alliaince

i will have no prob getting these legs, in fact some wars in my guild already have their pairs.

olol owned

[Fervent]

There are a few shaman in my guild that want those but even the shaman with the worst rap for looting non-PvE stuff has said he will pass because they will help the raid if I, a warrior, has them.

I guess it just depends on how understanding and cool your shaman are. I am just lucky.

[RubiksCube]

The day you warriors stop complaining about a paladin/shaman getting a good 2handed weapon aside from Herald of Woe is the day shamans/paladins will stop complaining about you getting this pants or legplates of the fallen crusader.

The real problem is your double moral:

You twist and turn any discussion as it fits you. Yet not one of you would ever play a supporting class because you don't find it "fun" enough.

I enjoy both the pvp and the pve aspect of healing, cleansing and generally supporting in groups that my paladin provides.

Still I ALSO enjoy solo pvp and solo pve, but for that I need completely different gear.

It's unfair and untrue of you to say the pants would benefit the whole raid if you got them and only benefit one person if the shaman got it. Only cuz an offensive warrior, or a priest or a mage or any non-hybrid class can use the same gear in both raid pve and solo pve or group pvp and solo pvp doesn't mean he should be getting dibs on an item that was clearly designed for another class.

You know what? I have and know people who have respecced ANY DAMN TIME they weren't raiding until the content got so trivial we could manage it without respeccing. I did that not for me, but only for the raid. And my thanks is, that if finally there's an item fitting my personal playing style, that I only change in benefit of the raid, if finally such an item drops I'm supposed to give it up because only I would benefit from it and not the whole raid?

I call bullshit.

[Anduryondon]

Yeah, i think every class should know what they need, if shamans wanna these legs fine, but if warrior want them its fine too. I hate class restrictions, only because someone think he knows whats good or not for another class.

[Sapphire]

The problem is your loot system, not the shaman. If your loot system isn't transparent, this isn't the only problem you'll see.

[WindiaN]

so fudgy is a full on traitor now, i didn't want to hear him whine about shaman getting screwed, in fact i distinctly remember a conversation with him that went something along the lines of:
"hahah I rerolled a shaman, its awesome, I am god, we are so overpowered"

[wargh]

There is no "double moral", just useless discussions. If your Raid has a DKP-based Lootsystem it doesnt matter what the warriors think. If they want the item they have to bleed. If you want the item for your pala or whatever you'll have to bleed.
In our guild a happy shaman is sporting the Ragnaros Hammer and noone is complaining, because its a godly WF weapon. Personally i would complain if a hunter would win a bet on Ashkandi because its really a waste of DPS in PvE, but hey - its the DKP that count ;)

[RubiksCube]

There is no "double moral", just useless discussions. If your Raid has a DKP-based Lootsystem it doesnt matter what the warriors think. If they want the item they have to bleed. If you want the item for your pala or whatever you'll have to bleed.
In our guild a happy shaman is sporting the Ragnaros Hammer and noone is complaining, because its a godly WF weapon. Personally i would complain if a hunter would win a bet on Ashkandi because its really a waste of DPS in PvE, but hey - its the DKP that count ;)

While this is true in theory, it never works and has never worked in the actual game. People expect a hybrid to pass for anything worth a damn.

I was asked to pass for OEB when our warriors didn't have a weapon dropping. At the same time I was asked to pass for Azuresong Mageblade because "mages and warlocks can get more out of it".

And YES we had/have a DKP system. Still doesn't prevent people from calling you and idiot no matter what fucking item you want. As a hybrid you'll always piss people off.

[Nisstyr]

Theres no such thing as a hybrid in this game... Just healers with an identity crisis.

[evilution]

grats on stealth reroll

[RubiksCube]

Theres no such thing as a hybrid in this game... Just healers with an identity crisis.

Or "pseudo-healers" who actually want to do SOMETHING solo.

[Fudgy]

so fudgy is a full on traitor now, i didn't want to hear him whine about shaman getting screwed, in fact i distinctly remember a conversation with him that went something along the lines of:
"hahah I rerolled a shaman, its awesome, I am god, we are so overpowered"

For pve, I much prefer my druid healing! And since our days on Archimonde, the shaman has been nerfed patch after patch! Still fun to purge people though!

[keboman]

There is no "double moral", just useless discussions. If your Raid has a DKP-based Lootsystem it doesnt matter what the warriors think. If they want the item they have to bleed. If you want the item for your pala or whatever you'll have to bleed.
In our guild a happy shaman is sporting the Ragnaros Hammer and noone is complaining, because its a godly WF weapon. Personally i would complain if a hunter would win a bet on Ashkandi because its really a waste of DPS in PvE, but hey - its the DKP that count ;)

You have been educated stupid. It's actually 4 morals which create 4 simultaneous answers to looting.

[socratic]

Or "pseudo-healers" who actually want to do SOMETHING solo.

You don't roll a support class and expect to do anything solo. Find a random pug warrior and invite him to group and heal. There you go, CP and you're doing your job/helping your faction win the BG.

If that bothers you, reroll, which you clearly have done a few times.

[Shakkha77]

Theres no such thing as a hybrid in this game... Just healers with an identity crisis.
so true^^

[^Deman]

Most intern guild raids got their own loot rules about multi class items not even let certain classes DKP for 'special' items

just an example staff of shadow flame mage-warlock only just as nefarians tear not even thinking about the damage and HEALING written on it but in cases where guild-raid leaders cant decide or do a clear statment which class got the moust use of the item like drakefang talisman hardcore DKP goes into the game letting warris rouges and hunters beating their heads, thats what i cant understand

btw Drakefang deserves another 20 pages discussion and the opinion :theres no other item out there that fits my XY slot better is a fucked up statement

[Traumatize]

Im horde and I have these.
Who wants to touch me?

[RubiksCube]

You don't roll a support class and expect to do anything solo. Find a random pug warrior and invite him to group and heal. There you go, CP and you're doing your job/helping your faction win the BG.

If that bothers you, reroll, which you clearly have done a few times.

That's true for BG's and that's exactly what I used to do in BG's. I can't invite a pug warrior anytime I want to farm gold/material for enchants, etcetera, etcetera.

Your comment about me rerolling "a few times" is just dumb, I rerolled from druid to paladin to be a better pvp healer, clearly when I and my buddies rolled horde I couldn't be a paladin again, so I picked the class I used to play all beta.

[wargh]

You have been educated stupid. It's actually 4 morals which create 4 simultaneous answers to looting.

No no, the answer is 6!

[Shakkha77]

No no, the answer is 6!
no way, the answer is 42

[Molakar]

The answer is blueberry pie

[crimsonjade]

While this is true in theory, it never works and has never worked in the actual game. People expect a hybrid to pass for anything worth a damn.


I call bullshit. My guild has a completely laissez faire DKP system. That means anything goes as long as you can equip it. Yes, that means a paladin has the Ashkhandi, the warrior has the Rag Hammer and our priests have Lok'amir and Shadowflame Staff.

If your guild is more worried about min/maxing than having fun, wtf are you playing for?

[wargh]

Exactly. First Claw drop from Drakes went to a Hunter in our Raid and the Rogues were crying. Not as crazy as Ashkandi to Hunter but its FFA DKP and i think its the best thing you can do. If you want it and have enough DKP you deserve it.

[Krissam]

I call bullshit. My guild has a completely laissez faire DKP system. That means anything goes as long as you can equip it. Yes, that means a paladin has the Ashkhandi, the warrior has the Rag Hammer and our priests have Lok'amir and Shadowflame Staff.

If your guild is more worried about min/maxing than having fun, wtf are you playing for?

word... however i cried both times my guild's ashkandies went to paladins :\

[Mylar]

this may be abit misplaced in a egoistical greed based setting like most dkp systems are, but how about giving priorites to the purpose that best helps the guild?

Like CoD/SsrL and asscandy and a zillion other items. Sure alot of retarded classes can use these, but there are but a select few who can use them AND still be of use to the guild. Giving asscandy to a pally is (from a guild-need basis) almost as worthless as disenchanting it. The pally will barely equip it in a guild context. He wont do dps in raids and he wont(hopefully) run around in pvp hitting stuff mainly in a group/guild pvp setting. The only place anyone gets benefit from it(and this is only himself) is when he solo-pvp's or sologrinds shit. (yes sure he can dps in the sub-60 instances but come on)
Hence, people work together as a team and get rewards, how about using those rewards to further the teams progress/effectiveness?

[SandDemon]

That's true for BG's and that's exactly what I used to do in BG's. I can't invite a pug warrior anytime I want to farm gold/material for enchants, etcetera, etcetera.

Your comment about me rerolling "a few times" is just dumb, I rerolled from druid to paladin to be a better pvp healer, clearly when I and my buddies rolled horde I couldn't be a paladin again, so I picked the class I used to play all beta.

Dont let them get ya down Rubiks, they just hate paladins :)

On a side note, really interested to see what blizzar does with the shaman revamp. Paladin revamp was really healing based, so wonder if they'll do the same thing with shamans to promote that.

[crimsonjade]

this may be abit misplaced in a egoistical greed based setting like most dkp systems are, but how about giving priorites to the purpose that best helps the guild?

Like CoD/SsrL and asscandy and a zillion other items. Sure alot of retarded classes can use these, but there are but a select few who can use them AND still be of use to the guild. Giving asscandy to a pally is (from a guild-need basis) almost as worthless as disenchanting it. The pally will barely equip it in a guild context. He wont do dps in raids and he wont(hopefully) run around in pvp hitting stuff mainly in a group/guild pvp setting. The only place anyone gets benefit from it(and this is only himself) is when he solo-pvp's or sologrinds shit. (yes sure he can dps in the sub-60 instances but come on)
Hence, people work together as a team and get rewards, how about using those rewards to further the teams progress/effectiveness?

I disagree. Our paladins using Ashkhandi with SoC is pretty damaging. Pigeonholing Paladins into a complete support role is failing to look at the class from an objective point of view. For a while Paladins were able to be even better healers by actually DPS'ing, but this changed a few patches ago.

Plus, my guild does not spend all our time in raid zones. Just yesterday 6 of us walked into a 25 Alliance to 40 Horde AV (so 31 total alliance now) and were able to push them straight back into their keep and win pretty fast. The final stats showed one of our Paladins using Untamed Blade getting more kills than both of the warriors with Bonereaver's Edge (the 2 warriors had 2 dedicated priests too!).

This comming weekend we are gonna go toe to toe with TAO, nurfed, etc in some WSG matches. You can bet ur ass that everytime one of our Paladins drops a SoC bomb on Tivoli a collective guild cheer will be heard on our vent. Everytime we blitz a graveyard our priests, opening up with damage before switching out of shadowform, will be sending a silent prayer up to the WoW gods giving thanks for their Shadow Flame Staff's.

We play on a PvP server and, despite Blizzard's failure's at implementing good PvP gameplay, group PvP means more to my guys than anything else.

[Mylar]

I disagree. Our paladins using Ashkhandi with SoC is pretty damaging. Pigeonholing Paladins into a complete support role is failing to look at the class from an objective point of view. For a while Paladins were able to be even better healers by actually DPS'ing, but this changed a few patches ago.

You are looking at it wrong, sure a pally fully decked out with the most uber dps equip _can_ do decent damage. But whatever reasoning or whatever you are gonna bring up here, i will counter it with saying: A warrior with similar equip is ALOT better. And not only this, but when a pally is dpsing he isnt doing what he does best: Healing and dispelling (and the occational stun/sleep/bop when needed)
So you lose 2x, one because a warrior would do more dps(and he has other tools like hamstring, fear, pummel and ae dmg) and one because the time your pally spends dps'ing he is NOT healing.
so no



Plus, my guild does not spend all our time in raid zones. Just yesterday 6 of us walked into a 25 Alliance to 40 Horde AV (so 31 total alliance now) and were able to push them straight back into their keep and win pretty fast. The final stats showed one of our Paladins using Untamed Blade getting more kills than both of the warriors with Bonereaver's Edge (the 2 warriors had 2 dedicated priests too!).
this one time at bandcamp...
this doesnt prove anything, it could be anything from horde having an average lvl of 55, your warriors sucking exceptional ass or that you by kills dont mean actual killing blows but kills, consecration4tl or about ten other factors.



This comming weekend we are gonna go toe to toe with TAO, nurfed, etc in some WSG matches. You can bet ur ass that everytime one of our Paladins drops a SoC bomb on Tivoli a collective guild cheer will be heard on our vent. Everytime we blitz a graveyard our priests, opening up with damage before switching out of shadowform, will be sending a silent prayer up to the WoW gods giving thanks for their Shadow Flame Staff's.
and this proves that not only you, but your entire guild as well are a pack of gimped, retarded losers.



We play on a PvP server and, despite Blizzard's failure's at implementing good PvP gameplay, group PvP means more to my guys than anything else.
yes, and if group pvp is that important, why isnt it important to utilize each class to its full potential?


edit: and mortal strike kek

[crimsonjade]

You have a lot of pent up rage there. I am sure your shortsightedness makes you a joy to have around...

[Mylar]

ah damnit, you sure beat me there. and i thought the discussion was going so well :(

and yes i was pissy in my post, get over yourself -_-

[crimsonjade]

i stop discussing when the posts contain more flames than relevant info. i was merely using my guild as an example that you can be successful without prioritizing items.

[Mylar]

well, i see one flame and 4 valid points

[shaolinscum]

mylar 3:0 crimsonjade imo

[RubiksCube]

Even if you're gonna use classes to their full potential and priorize Items for these classes, "hybrid" classes are getting the shaft. Before ZG was in the game, I was discussing with our mages and 'locks over the mageblade, so d'oh.

[Dunderdon]

These legs are as much Shaman legs as a Crown of Destruction is a shaman crown. Shaman have no reason to take this over any warrior.

This game is almost entirely PvE at this point, and if you feel you need Shaman DPS to help you progress, then your raid has serious problems. Shaman drop totems and heal, These pants won't help then do either of those better.

warriors tank

(oh i am a warrior myself)

[Soruss]

Even if you're gonna use classes to their full potential and priorize Items for these classes, "hybrid" classes are getting the shaft. Before ZG was in the game, I was discussing with our mages and 'locks over the mageblade, so d'oh.

I fail to see how a paladin gets the shaft when he doesn't get ashkandi over a warrior who would use it all the time in both PvE and PvP. I guess if you only care about duels then maybe the paladin is getting shafted, but the last time I was in a group pvp fight with a good paladin backing me up (and one other alliance kicking around) we killed 6 of a group of 8 horde before the graveyard rez and we got zerged (moreso). There's no way you can convince me that if he pulled out a 2h and dps'd, or even tried to heal with a 2h out, that we would've lived that long. And how many of those horde do you think we would've killed if the 2 shamans were healing? Probably none.