Regarding druids

[Jessiah]

First off let me say I like your website and videos. My guild is moving to WoW and I am trying to coordinate somewhat of a balance of classes. I was curious about druids in particular. We are going horde/pvp.

I notice you guys only have Scorch as a druid. Would you prefer a priest and shaman almost anytime rather than a druid? On paper it looks like druids are pretty solid, but the fact that you have only one in guild makes me wonder how they are in practice (no offence to Scorch I am sure you play your class well)

Any input on where you think druids stand would be appreciated.

[Kasake]

NERF DRUIDS!!!

[Envie]

There were other druids, one other level 60 towards the end of closed beta, but Scorch played the most, and is most familiar to everyone. He's a kickass druid btw, but not sure that's what he's choosing for final game.

Druids, played well, can be a great addition to a group/guild/raid... I think they became much more viable towards the end with added damage and talents. They also make great backup healers, and great buffs, of course.

Nurfed will be welcoming any of it's members to play a druid and/or shaman as they definitely add variety and spells we need/want for versatility. Indalamar is gathering us together for our class choices now while the servers are down, and we have plenty of time to discuss it. I told them I'd play one if it looks like we have plenty of priests, though priest is my first choice.

It's only coincidence that we had one main druid player in Nurfed at the end... not that we excluded them at all. Nurfed understands the value of versatility, and once the main group dynamics are met, welcomes the addition of other classes.

=)

[Jessiah]

Thanks for the reply =)

Any chance you guys will post what you decide on classes? Would be interesting to compare with my own guild.

[Jumai]

I'm gonna generalize a bit, because I'm not as farmiliar as others with druids, but I have a fair handle on them.

Druids are mainly looked at for their healer class due to supply and demand, so I'll focus on that first.

Druids do not res. This is a balance point, and neccecary, but it's certainly not helpful for the druids.

The druid fast heal is not efficiently spammable. Regrowth 9 = Heals a friendly target for 1003 to 1119 and another 1064 over 21 sec, 880 mana, 2 second cast. Flash Heal 7 = Heals a friendly target for 812 to 958, 380 mana, 1.5 second cast. Clearly, when you have to be able to push out the heals per second to keep someone alive who's getting their ass kicked, the druid is going to go OOM very, very rapidly unless the druid switches to Healing Touch 10, Heals a friendly target for 1890 to 2230, 790 mana, 3.5 second cast. Flash heals are landing faster and cheaper than anything a druid can do, if you don't have time for the big heal, a the best a druid can do is stack their HoTs to make the shaman or priest's job a bit easier.

Priests have bubble. The best ohshit heal in the game, PW:S 10 is an INSTANT 942 heal-type effect (it's only not the same as a heal when for some reason, the 30 second duration ends before all the absorb is used, or it's used on someone with 0-941 hp missing). It's inefficient (500 mana), but when it's the only thing that will keep someone alive long enough for you to start landing heals, the priest can do it and the druid cannot.

Priests have fear. If the bogies make it to the healer, an instant cast gtfo button is a tremendous boon which the druids lack. This is a PvP thing, since fear is a big gamble in PvE, but PvP is what matters right?

Strictly superior buffing. 540 hp (700 after talents) and 60 shadow resist really does beat 285 armour, 12 all stats (120 hp, some minor damage/dodge/regen, and 180 mana for mana classes), 20 all resists, and 18 damage return on melee attacks.

He can shapeshift, of course, and try to be a warrior or rogue, but the comparisons will be similar.

The unfortunate truth with the druid is they are te convenience class. They can do a great many things, but they can't be the best at anything by design, so whatever role they try to play, there's always someone who can do it better. The only real incentive to play a druid other than the intangible is your chances of scoring a pickup group are pretty decent compared to most classes, provided you are good at all your forms and the pickup group orchestrator doesn't have a vendetta against bear tanks or cat form DPSers.

[Scorch]

Short version: Druids are a fairly 'fun' class to play, but if you're 'serious' about things there's no real reason to have more than 2-3 around.

Long version: Druids are basically the poorest designed class in WoW. Hunters with their mana bars probably come second, but there's so many things wrong at the basic level with Druids they didn't bother to fix. Top three I think, would be,

1) Stats are spread out over Stam, Spr, Int, and a bit of Str as well. Any class like that is immediately disadvantaged against other classes that are focused on 1-2 stats.

2) Animal forms are a gimmick. Animal damage isn't based off equipment, so once you hit lvl 60, you're stuck at that dmg. Rogue/Warriors can keep getting better and better weapons. Cat is suppose to be rogue form, but it has none of the things that make Rogues feared in PvP. No real stuns, no Vanish, DPS isn't even close to a Rogue's, we don't even a direct finishing move. Bear form hasn't been tankable since 2 or 3 patches ago, when they 'fixed' the hp. Even then, past lvl 50 Bear armor can't keep up at all with Warriors.

3) We have 3 particularly significant spells that are outdoors-only, Entangle, Nature's Grasp, and Travel form. Seeing as all but one instance in the game right now is indoors...

Beyond that, this whole 'second choice' idea for Druids is just flawed. There's no reason to pick a Druid over a Priest for primary healer, or even over a Shaman for secondary healer. If you want to fill in gaps in your pick-up group then Druids are ok, but if you got a solid guild makeup then you just need one or two Druids around to buff and that's about it.

- Scorch

[Jessiah]

Thanks for the info. A shame to hear it, but usefull nonetheless.

[Pokett]

what about druids in pvp, Scorch? if you wanted to make a druid designed for pvp how would you fare? Since a lot of pvp is outdoors, those three spells you mentioned would probably come in quite handy. i never did see many druids when i pvp'd but the ones i did fight were tough battles.

[Nisstyr]

we joke around sometimes with scorch and tell him he should make every button on his hotbar mark of the wild, that says a lot i would say about the class ;o

[Jessiah]

:(

The class had a lot of potential I thought. Thanks for the help guys, maybe we'll see you in game sometime.

[Scorch]

what about druids in pvp, Scorch? if you wanted to make a druid designed for pvp how would you fare? Since a lot of pvp is outdoors, those three spells you mentioned would probably come in quite handy. i never did see many druids when i pvp'd but the ones i did fight were tough battles.

Druids are surprisingly good in 1v1 PvP. The problem is the game isn't really designed for 1v1, and in group PvP Druids are again reduced to the (pretty important) role of healing, with the occasional Entangle tossed in. There's two paths you can take, be a Moonfire-spammer (full Balance specced) or be a wannabe-Rogue (full Cat specced).

I don't really like Cat spec just because in general, range > melee, so I go more of the Moonfire spammer route. It's wildly mana inefficient but it has a tendency to bring down low hp classes hard. Mages I just absolutely cream, and Warlocks too if they don't fear me till I die. Rogues are a lot tougher this push, because Vanish breaks Entangle and Faerie Fire, but I still usually win unless they get that chain stun going. Warriors I win outdoors, lose indoors usually, for obvious reasons. Healer classes like Shamans and Priests I go 50/50 against (unless against Elemental Shamans or mana burning priests, then I go down hard). Paladins... I haven't fought many but they can dispel every spell I have, and if you go Cat form their plate armour makes things tough. So overall Druids are pretty good in duels.

The problem is probably that my build is way overreliant on Moonfire; people have been whining on the forums about the recast on it and I have a strong feeling it'll get nerfed soon.

NERF DRUIDS!!!1

- Scorch

[Adinion]

I didn't get to play a druid for long. I would have to say that the druid is the most fun I had on a class solo wise. You can do so many things, but of course priests are my bread and butter. Nothing better then supporting people and keeping them alive.

[JonChron]

Druids are actually one of the better classes in game. I played one to 60 and can tell you they are a finesse class above anything else. They're more about adaptation in pvp.

In group pvp a druid's regens and buffs are his strengths, rather than trying to spam heals, shields, and dispels like a priest. A priest can keep his party up better, but the druid is not far behind, his rank 1 moonfire is also kick ass for killing totems.

A good shape shifting druid can dish some decent damage escape, heal to full, throw a couple debuffs and come back for more.

If things get tricky you can root to easily regain control of the situation.

This class isn't really gimped, it just takes a true sav to play it properly. :wink:

[Ralrra]

In all honesty, a superbly skilled player can often take the gimpest class and make it seem overpowered.

The thing is in a game like an MMORPG, you shouldn't have to be a uber l33t skilled player to find enjoyment in any given class. I think that's the problem most people have is that certain classes aren't fun for them.