Essential talent builds for BWL and similiar encounters?

[Jerboa]

Hi @all friends of theorycraft and the raid experienced guys out there, I have some maybe tough questions :)

Do you have rules to force someone into special talent builds for BWL and such encounters?

Or have you made the same experience that this is unrealistic to obtain?

Are there some talents for one or more classes, that are vital for completing all of BWL? Or is this only dependent on the perfect raid class setup and of course the love for the chosen class and how good everyone in the raid can handle his/her character?

Current raid status:
@ Ragnaros Farming
@Onyxia Farming
@ Hakkar Farming
@ Razorgore pre 1.9 trials ended with wipe
(best was like 8 eggs left or 4, don't know exactly)

Out MT has specced deep into def, for his own reasons, without anyone demanding this, and all priests are Disc/Holy, with the exception of one trispec priest.

Is there something about the mages that would give us advantages in BWL and later encounters, or other classes I mentioned? Or anything in other classes talent builds that is vital for this?

I'm asking this to the guys from nurfed, whose success in many raid encounters I adore, and to all the other guys here, from any other effective raids!

Honestly I must add that I ask this question, because I am a 34/17 Disc Holy Priest who considers speccing into 17/0/34 or 13/0/38 gogo Shadowform... and I can't say if someone follows me if I do this... cause I am the raidleader...

So my overall question is, if it is a risk to do this, because you need many Disc/Holy Priests in this encounters, and not only Shadowpriest + Druid w/Feral and Shammy/Pala Healing, or is this just garbage said by retards?

Please help me, and please no very short posts like "gogo shadowform", this doesn't help me much!

[Ziot]

gogo shadowform


Do you have rules to force someone into special talent builds for BWL and such encounters?

No. You should not have to force your members to a certain talent spec.. if you are doing this, then you have some guild issues. If your main tank is defensive and your priests have sublety (vael), then you do not really have anything to worry about.


Is there something about the mages that would give us advantages in BWL and later encounters

In Molten Core, mages would be more effecient if they were frost.. does it matter though? No. You will only have a marginal dps increase and that is only if the mages are actually paying attention.

The only fight you 'might' need mages to have something specific would be Nefarius and having two mages with improved blizzard. But you can do this fight without that too.


@ Razorgore pre 1.9 trials ended with wipe
(best was like 8 eggs left or 4, don't know exactly)

Perhaps it is not a talent issue, but rather a strategy issue.

[Anduryondon]

I´ve made the experience, that if you specc for 1-2 kills a good pve spec, that helps you with that encounter and then respec to your normal/ your wish build, it helps you to learn the encounter and when you respec you know how to handle the encounter. Maybe its a little bit harder then, but its not as hard as if you would have tried this with your normal spec.

[bierbaum]

or just get a ubertank like onyx and let him tank 31/2/18

btw. is he respeccing everytime youre doing bwl now or are you zerging with cookiecutter buildtanks ?

[cian]

we don't have def specced tank or subtlety priests afaik

it definitely helps though. however, it wouldn't matter much on razorgore, but you'll probably end up going that route once you get to vael

[Ziot]

we don't have def specced tank or subtlety priests afaik

Sadly, we have things to worry about!

[Jerboa]

If u would read a bit between the lines, u would know that we also force nobody into some special talent builds, but luckily we have one def tank atm, and all but one disc/holy priests. :)

Me as priest never was subtlety specced, and my priest is on teh eazy mode, alliance /w Blessing of salvation, save your talent points^^

I love my lil' ud warlock alt so much more than my priest, and cuz of this I consider speccing shadowform...

And surely, our noob trials on Razorgore were wipes because of somethin special stupid, we didn't always have the full 40 members... and not all have 50% T1 Equip or better... but I'm sure this encounter will be solved very soon, maybe this week, and the following after Razorgore like Vael and so on can be tried...

Some posts of u helped me with this issue, but surely looking for some more input to help me with not being afraid of all other priests following me this step ^^

Sorry for any mistakes in grammar and spelling, I'm a bit drunk^^

[Dunderdon]

And surely, our noob trials on Razorgore were wipes because of somethin special stupid, we didn't always have the full 40 members... and not all have 50% T1 Equip or better... but I'm sure this encounter will be solved very soon, maybe this week, and the following after Razorgore like Vael and so on can be tried...

you should try to get a group of the same 40 people raiding for two nights

works wonders. trust me

[Lodekim]

We still in general prefer our druids/priests speccing subtlety, it's not been upheld heavily, but we've had that as one of the few standing rules.

We had a few tanks spec defiance when first learning Vael, but since then we do BWL without a single tank with a point in protection.

I think we still have mages specced arcane subtlety, but I hate mages, so who cares.

[Shakkha77]

Well there is a difference between guilds like yours who are in the learning process and guilds like Nurfed who are in farming mode.

While no spec is required for any of the BWL fights, it helps a lot for the learning phase.

For at least the few weeks of learning and beating encounters after encounters, i'd probably try to get your members to be of the most 'raid efficient spec'.

That is Disc/Holy priest, defiance warriors resto druids etc.

It certainly isn't 'needed' but it definitely helps to learn.

Then once you are in farming mode, from your experience you gain a margin on each encounter, and this margin allows for more 'less-efficient' specs.


If you are the guildleader i wouldn't really spec shadow if i was you. Specing shadow is putting ones own enjoyment before the guild need.

While it is a game and everyone needs to enjoy their playing, it sets a bad example when the guildleader does selfish action.