Upgrades

[tolin]

Hi,

So far my guild is psyched about NDKP we love it. Myself and another guild officer are incharge of the DKP system. We were looking at the upgrade thing and are a bit confused and have a concern.

1) say warrior #1 looted HoM before be started DKP and warrior #2 just looted Hom, next week comes we down Onyxia and HoW drops... now because NDKP shows warrior #2 already bought HoM he only pays the difference in DKP while warrior #1 is stiffed into paying the full price.

2)upgrades... aren't 99% of loots you get upgrades? why should someone going from tier1 to tier2 get a discount but someone whos going from a green or blue set have to pay full price?

[Ralrra]

1) say warrior #1 looted HoM before be started DKP and warrior #2 just looted Hom, next week comes we down Onyxia and HoW drops... now because NDKP shows warrior #2 already bought HoM he only pays the difference in DKP while warrior #1 is stiffed into paying the full price.

2)upgrades... aren't 99% of loots you get upgrades? why should someone going from tier1 to tier2 get a discount but someone whos going from a green or blue set have to pay full price?

#1) They both paid the same price for their HoW. Warrior #2 just opted to first buy the HoM, and thus making him get HoW later most likely because he spent DKP.

#2) Because you want to give incentive to people to take the Tier 1 stuff once you're at the point that tier 2 stuff is dropping for you. Why should the guy who still has a blue or especially a green be rewarded for not getting the in-between tier 1 piece? The upgrade system is in place to discourage hording DKP. In most systems people will just pass on items they can use and would actually be better gear, because there's something later on that they want and don't want to have to spend their points. The upgrade system encourages people to take that first piece as a stepping stone of sorts.

[tolin]

thanks 2) makes sense but your response to 1) didnt. If someone got HoM on a run before we started DKP he didnt pay any DKP for it. If what your saying is since that guy has to pay full price for HoW which would basicly be the Cost of HoM plus the difference. But we don't want to penalize people for loot they already recieved before we started dkp.

[Asia]

thanks 2) makes sense but your response to 1) didnt. If someone got HoM on a run before we started DKP he didnt pay any DKP for it. If what your saying is since that guy has to pay full price for HoW which would basicly be the Cost of HoM plus the difference. But we don't want to penalize people for loot they already recieved before we started dkp.

Look at it this way:

Helm of Wrath: 13.068 DKP
Helm of Might: 11.46 DKP

Warrior1 has HoM he paid 0 DKP
Warrior2 loots HoM he pays 11.46DKP

HoW x2 drops
Warrior1 loots and goes negative 13.068
Warrior2 loots and he already negative 11.46 but he's upgraded to HoW for an additional 1.604 DKP
Now both are negative equal.. Since they both paid the same amount for HoW.

[tolin]

thats my point we feel the guy who got the HoM before the DKP system shouldnt have to... in a sense... repay for it.

[AzouN]

thats my point we feel the guy who got the HoM before the DKP system shouldnt have to... in a sense... repay for it.

If you started your NDKP system with everybody at zero, he should.

[tolin]

my point is he EARNED the gear through something other the DKP before we had DKP, so now he gets recharged? where is that fair.

[AzouN]

my point is he EARNED the gear through something other the DKP before we had DKP, so now he gets recharged? where is that fair.

It's not, in essence, but if you want to use NDKP and haven't keep loot/raid records from your previous raids there's no way of going about it.

I guess you could wait for 3.0 and give him an adjustment then, but honestly there's little point in going to NDKP if you're not going to keep it the logical zero sum anyway. IMO.

[Asia]

my logic is this..

If you did not charge him for DKP before, then moved to DKP and charge him full.. You are saying that you are punishing him by charging him 100% on the HoW.

Well..

If you didn't charge him DKP on the HoM, then that Non Spent DKP shouldn't matter should it? because it was a Non DKP scenario. If you removed it and gave him upgrade price then you are punishing the warriors who did not get the item Pre DKP as well as punishing the whole raid.

DKP is only DKP when you start to use it. It should not factor in anything that anyone has gotten preDKP or Free, because that's not DKP, that's free random Looting. So therefore, your 1st warrior is not punished at all. He is paying DKP for items he earns. And anything he has had Pre DKP should not take into account, since he was never charged for the first one to begine with.. you get me ? :D

[Johennes]

I'm semi in the same boat.

But it's a little different.

We have a ton of people who have been raiding with us for months, yet about 2 months ago the database was lost that we had for EQDKP. Now we have a new database with at least the adjustments of where people were on the points list.

Now we can work fine from this, and if they have a piece of gear already, we calculate the upgrade price from that.

Is there any way to take stock of what someone has and then import it, charging them 0 for the items they have? Because that would be double charging them for something they have already gained from this system, and it's impossible to correctly recompile the old raids and distribute the points correctly.

[Asia]

none, sorry :(

[Johennes]

none, sorry :(

That seriously makes me sad, as this way there is almost no way we can switch to this system.

[Asia]

well you could loot all the items to the players pre-dkp.. Charge them the price they would pay if they were on the DKP system.

Go back and Add DKP to them so they end up at 0..

I.E.

Warrior 1 has BOM charged today for Full Price: 10.579
Adjust DKP to Warrior 1 Add back the DKP he paid : 10.579

Warrior1 Returns to 0 DKP.

Then he never really paid, and he can upgrade accordingly.