Evaluating Warrior Gear

[alcaras]

Here are some values I came up with weighting warrior gear for PvP and Tanking, separately:


$weights_pvp = array("armor" => 0.11,
"strength" => 10.31,
"stamina" => 4.95,
"agility" => 3.16,
"arcane_resist" => 0.57,
"fire_resist" => 1.03,
"frost_resist" => 0.71,
"nature_resist" => 0.74,
"shadow_resist" => 1.75,
"critical_strike" => 63.29,
"attack_power" => 5.13,
"dodge" => 13.62,
"parry" => 13.62,
"chance_to_hit"=>0,
"defense"=>0.53);

$weights_tank = array("armor" => 1.04,
"strength" => 0,
"stamina" => 19.8,
"agility" => 2.08,
"arcane_resist" => 0,
"fire_resist" => 0,
"frost_resist" => 0,
"nature_resist" => 0,
"shadow_resist" => 0,
"critical_strike" => 0,
"attack_power" => 0,
"dodge" => 117.65,
"parry" => 117.65,
"chance_to_hit"=> 0,
"defense"=>4.69);


They're not perfect and I'm still refining them, but I find them useful in selecting gear :)

Any comments or feedback are appreciated...

Resist gear for PvE is not considered yet in my calculations :)

[big_boi]

defence/life = more damage in pvp too, imo.

[alcaras]

E.g. Best PVP Necklaces according to this, in order:

The Eye of Hakkar 268.49
Talisman of Binding Shard 231.91
Dragonheart Necklace 227.07
Amulet of the Darkmoon 212.64
Will of the Martyr 203.4
Imperial Jewel 198.81
Mark of Fordring 196.67
Abyssal War Beads 176.85
Rage of Mugamba 175.29
Medallion of Steadfast Might 175
Strength of Mugamba 174.76
Conqueror's Medallion 170.19
Master Dragonslayer's Medallion 166.75
Frostwolf Legionnaire's Pendant 166.59
Stormpike Soldier's Pendant 166.59
Eskhandar's Collar 161.06
Onyxia Tooth Pendant 156.06
Strength of Mugamba 142.75
Woven Ivy Necklace 139.8
Strength of Mugamba 123.79
Blazefury Medallion 122.74
Verek's Collar 110.13
Emberfury Talisman 110.1
Zealous Shadowshard Pendant 102.6
Scout's Medallion 96.9
Sentinel's Medallion 96.9
Gazlowe's Charm 95.69
Prestor's Talisman of Connivery 94.8
Ethereal Talisman 93.89
Skibi's Pendant 92.63

[khan3817]

Surprised to see Talisman of Binding Shard so high.

Not surprised to see Eye of Hakkar there.

[alcaras]

Surprised to see Talisman of Binding Shard so high.

Not surprised to see Eye of Hakkar there.

24 to two resists is huge on a neck.

[Soulless]

Care to elaborate how you weighted the stats against each other?

I.E. why is crit 63.29 and strength 10.31?

[alcaras]

Care to elaborate how you weighted the stats against each other?

I.E. why is crit 63.29 and strength 10.31?

It's based on 1% increase in DPS (as per MS instant attack damage) using the current equipment on my warrior (Rank 10 PvP set and some blues; wielding Barb Blade).

[Soulless]

Care to elaborate how you weighted the stats against each other?

I.E. why is crit 63.29 and strength 10.31?

It's based on 1% increase in DPS (as per MS instant attack damage) using the current equipment on my warrior (Rank 10 PvP set and some blues; wielding Barb Blade).

And what about dodge/parry/agi/sta?

[wargh]

Is the Darkmoon Amulett worth the farming time for a PvP/DPS Warrior? Or should i just blow some DKP for ony head? What do you guys think?

[uro]

Onyxia head, despite alcaras' formulas, is still the best neckalce in the game (if you can get other good gear).

[Anduryondon]

isnt agility underrated, because if you have 20 agi you have 1% crit AND dodge too

[Soruss]

isnt agility underrated, because if you have 20 agi you have 1% crit AND dodge too

Dodge is ho hum because it lets other warriors get overpowers on you.

[D2F]

isnt agility underrated, because if you have 20 agi you have 1% crit AND dodge too

Dodge is ho hum because it lets other warriors get overpowers on you.

True that, but it gives you an edge against every other melee and Hunters. It is a calculated Risk. And in my opinion a risk well worth it. Since, other than rogues, a Warrior can take the punishmen of the occasional Overpower. Especially, if that means dodging that Mortal Strike crit that would have hit you otherwise.

It is a game of chance after all, like everyting in MMOs. You have to find a comfortable middle ground to maximize your oerall chances. For that you must nocht conentrate too heavily on one particular class match-up.ou have to keep them all in mind.

[frotes]

isnt agility underrated, because if you have 20 agi you have 1% crit AND dodge too

Dodge is ho hum because it lets other warriors get overpowers on you.

True that, but it gives you an edge against every other melee and Hunters. It is a calculated Risk. And in my opinion a risk well worth it. Since, other than rogues, a Warrior can take the punishmen of the occasional Overpower. Especially, if that means dodging that Mortal Strike crit that would have hit you otherwise.

It is a game of chance after all, like everyting in MMOs. You have to find a comfortable middle ground to maximize your oerall chances. For that you must nocht conentrate too heavily on one particular class match-up.ou have to keep them all in mind.]

a mortal strike crit will hit u anyways.. a crit hit is calcuated before anything else

[D2F]

a mortal strike crit will hit u anyways.. a crit hit is calcuated before anything else

From a pure thecnical viewpoint, yes. But that doge of yours,might have been a mortal strike crit of your opponent. And that is, what I am talking about.

Unless, there is some higher priority for crits. That theory might be hard to prove, though, since we don't know wether a dodged hit would have been a crit or not.

[Anduryondon]

Well, just let the PvP Aspect out there and just use the numbers:

"dodge" => 13.62,
"critical_strike" => 63.29,

If you take these numbers, 20 agi would be ~77, but if you take 20 points of agi (3.16) you get only 63,2.

[wargh]

So after all i would waste my time farming Darkmoon if i can get my hands on Onys Necklace, thanks for letting me know ;)

[Molakar]

Here are some values I came up with weighting warrior gear for PvP and Tanking, separately:


$weights_pvp = array("armor" => 0.11,
"strength" => 10.31,
"stamina" => 4.95,
"agility" => 3.16,
"arcane_resist" => 0.57,
"fire_resist" => 1.03,
"frost_resist" => 0.71,
"nature_resist" => 0.74,
"shadow_resist" => 1.75,
"critical_strike" => 63.29,
"attack_power" => 5.13,
"dodge" => 13.62,
"parry" => 13.62,
"chance_to_hit"=>0,
"defense"=>0.53);

$weights_tank = array("armor" => 1.04,
"strength" => 0,
"stamina" => 19.8,
"agility" => 2.08,
"arcane_resist" => 0,
"fire_resist" => 0,
"frost_resist" => 0,
"nature_resist" => 0,
"shadow_resist" => 0,
"critical_strike" => 0,
"attack_power" => 0,
"dodge" => 117.65,
"parry" => 117.65,
"chance_to_hit"=> 0,
"defense"=>4.69);


They're not perfect and I'm still refining them, but I find them useful in selecting gear :)

Any comments or feedback are appreciated...

Resist gear for PvE is not considered yet in my calculations :)

This could be used by a hunter too if you just modified the values? Guess it goes for all classes if you modify the values... Just need to figure out what's needed for pvp/pve for each class, then change the values so it gives 1% dps increase based on rank 10 pvp set or something like that?

[Soruss]

a mortal strike crit will hit u anyways.. a crit hit is calcuated before anything else

From a pure thecnical viewpoint, yes. But that doge of yours,might have been a mortal strike crit of your opponent. And that is, what I am talking about.

Unless, there is some higher priority for crits. That theory might be hard to prove, though, since we don't know wether a dodged hit would have been a crit or not.

There is data to suggest that a crit is a seperate occurence from a miss/parry/block or dodge. Sort of like DnD where a 20 always hits and is a crit. I don't have a link to the post on the official forums that was discussing this, it is quite old.


True that, but it gives you an edge against every other melee and Hunters. It is a calculated Risk. And in my opinion a risk well worth it. Since, other than rogues, a Warrior can take the punishmen of the occasional Overpower. Especially, if that means dodging that Mortal Strike crit that would have hit you otherwise.

It is a game of chance after all, like everyting in MMOs. You have to find a comfortable middle ground to maximize your oerall chances. For that you must nocht conentrate too heavily on one particular class match-up.ou have to keep them all in mind.

The fact is that in group PvP these classes (other melee, rogues, and hunters) aren't a threat and in 1vs1 a lot of their dps will come at times when dodging isn't possible (stunned or in a frost trap). Sure dodge helps vs. these classes, but it is a pretty small amount. Just like the threat of overpower is a small negative for dodging. Infact the pros and cons of dodging for a warrior are so slight that they basically cancel each other out... Which is exactly how alcaras has his numbers set up.

[uro]

I think of it this way: i dont mind dodge in PVP. i dont go gunning for it, but if i get it, i dont mind. im at like 12% dodge in my PVP gear. think of it this way: if youre grouped, what does a warrior's overpower mean? free enrage, then you get healed back up to full.what does dodging a cheap shot or a 5bub KS mean? yup.

[Tariel]

Imperial Jewel > Emberfury Talisman?

Can someone explain that for me?

[arch]

Imperial Jewel > Emberfury Talisman?

Can someone explain that for me?

Attack power is great.

[Dunderdon]

oh come on
onyxia's pendant ftw

[Tariel]

Imperial Jewel > Emberfury Talisman?

Can someone explain that for me?

Attack power is great.

12 str better than 1% to crit? :?

[alcaras]

Onyxia head, despite alcaras' formulas, is still the best neckalce in the game (if you can get other good gear).

I'm not disagreeing with you; my formulas are just drafts.

I'd love to hear why you think that it is the best, however.

[keboman]

Onyxia head, despite alcaras' formulas, is still the best neckalce in the game (if you can get other good gear).

Drugs are bad

[uro]

I said, if you can get other good gear. Think of it this way:
Whats the difference between 1k AP without shout and 1100 AP without shout? For MS, its 23.5 dmg noncrit.

Now, whats the difference between 1k AP without shout and 28 or 29% crit, and 1100 AP without shout and 25% crit? HUGE. Stacking AP up to enormously high levels requires a massive sacrifice to crit. Really high AP is relatively easy to get if you can get the best gear in the game, and giving up 50-100 AP for at least 3% crit is a MUCH better trade off. This is my line of thinking anyway. Most of the stuff im talking about revolves around my current gear setup, in which i already hit like a motherfucking tank, and sacrificing a little bit of consistant damage for a large increase in crit is much more worth it (again, IMO).

[Soulless]

Imperial Jewel > Emberfury Talisman?

Can someone explain that for me?

Attack power is great.

12 str better than 1% to crit? :?

16 str.

[keboman]

Yeah, and it changes as AP goes up. Eventually agil will be better than str point for point for warriors and backwood helm will REIGN SUPREME.

What happened to the good old days when I saw warriors being leet orgrimmar duelers with stuff like this ?!?!!?

Back: Stoneskin Gargoyle Cape
Chest: Ogre Forged Hauberk
Feet: Ribsteel Footguards
Left Finger: Painweaver Band
Right Finger: Blackstone Ring
Hands: Reiver Claws
Head: Backwood Helm
Legs: Eldritch Reinforced Legplates
Neck: Mark of Fordring
Shouders: Spaulders of Valor
Right Trinket: Blackhand's Breadth
Waist: Omokk's Girth Restrainer
Wrist: Vigorsteel Vambraces
Mainhand: Arcanite Reaper
Ranged: Satyr's Bow

[WindiaN]

how did you take into account the way crit% and attackpower/strength are dependent upon each other to value their increase in dps?

[Luxury]

Uro, here's a question for you. Bracers of Wrath vs. Berserker Bracers? and why if you don't mind.

[KingKapalone]

Yeah, and it changes as AP goes up. Eventually agil will be better than str point for point for warriors and backwood helm will REIGN SUPREME.

What happened to the good old days when I saw warriors being leet orgrimmar duelers with stuff like this ?!?!!?

GEAR GEAR
GEAR GEAR




Is Arcanite Reaper still the standard 2H DPS weapon for a warrior before getting drops in MC or ZG?

[Jazz]

Is Arcanite Reaper still the standard 2H DPS weapon for a warrior before getting drops in MC or ZG?

The Unstoppable Force from AV is now.

[keboman]

[quote=keboman]
Is Arcanite Reaper still the standard 2H DPS weapon for a warrior before getting drops in MC or ZG?

The Unstoppable Force from AV is now.

Hey! I didn't write that!

[KingKapalone]

I've heard that no one plays AV anymore and the waits are usually really long. I guess that varies by server though. Can you gain experience in AV? I'm only level 20, so if I could I could start gaining experience and rep with them before I hit 60 to speed things up that would be better.

[Soulless]

[quote=keboman]
Is Arcanite Reaper still the standard 2H DPS weapon for a warrior before getting drops in MC or ZG?

The Unstoppable Force from AV is now.

Hey! I didn't write that!

DENIAL!

[Jazz]

FIXED!

[uro]

Uro, here's a question for you. Bracers of Wrath vs. Berserker Bracers? and why if you don't mind.

berserkers. too bad theres no way i could get them D:.

[keboman]

I've heard that no one plays AV anymore and the waits are usually really long. I guess that varies by server though. Can you gain experience in AV? I'm only level 20, so if I could I could start gaining experience and rep with them before I hit 60 to speed things up that would be better.

I did the grind from 55-60 on gnolls in about 2 days /played. Got exalted AV and made over 1200g in the process. At around 58 (before that just pull 2 and do the SS thing.. kills faster than one at a time if you do it right)or so I just pulled 3-4 of them and did the sweeping strikes/cleave/ww happy fun time stuff. Cheap bandages are available at honored and you can put down the standard and periodically get buffs. Pretty ideal grinding spot!

[KingKapalone]

The gnolls are in AV and are worth rep? Wouldn't this be the riskiest spot in the game to grind with all the PvP going on?

[keboman]

No you get Rep just by being there.

As for getting ganked.. I got ganked far, far less on the Gnolls than I did "in the wild" the harpies (as horde) was about a gank every hour or so?

[KingKapalone]

The Gnolls are accessible as Alliance also?

[keboman]

Well when I was there 99% of the time it was me and some non-english speaking dude there.

[Soruss]

I think of it this way: i dont mind dodge in PVP. i dont go gunning for it, but if i get it, i dont mind. im at like 12% dodge in my PVP gear. think of it this way: if youre grouped, what does a warrior's overpower mean? free enrage, then you get healed back up to full.what does dodging a cheap shot or a 5bub KS mean? yup.

I would never not use something because of dodge, however i wouldn't use something because of it either.

Also, kidney shot is a low energy instant and I don't think getting hit with an overpower crit is exactly free enrage... I'd say hamstring crits are free enrage ;p

[khan3817]

Random stupid rogue's offhand pussily crits you for 28 is your free enrage.

[D2F]

There is data to suggest that a crit is a seperate occurence from a miss/parry/block or dodge. Sort of like DnD where a 20 always hits and is a crit. I don't have a link to the post on the official forums that was discussing this, it is quite old.

I would love to read that discussion if there would be any chance for you to get your hands on it and pass it over to me. If that is the case, then I stand corrected. nevertheless, dodge would help in other situations as well (more on that below)


The fact is that in group PvP these classes (other melee, rogues, and hunters) aren't a threat and in 1vs1 a lot of their dps will come at times when dodging isn't possible (stunned or in a frost trap). Sure dodge helps vs. these classes, but it is a pretty small amount. Just like the threat of overpower is a small negative for dodging. Infact the pros and cons of dodging for a warrior are so slight that they basically cancel each other out... Which is exactly how alcaras has his numbers set up.

I never disagreed with alcaras' numbers. I merel pointed out, why dodge could very well be an acceptable stat for a warrior even in PvP. Uro summed up my line of thinking almos perfectly in his quote below:


I think of it this way: i dont mind dodge in PVP. i dont go gunning for it, but if i get it, i dont mind. im at like 12% dodge in my PVP gear. think of it this way: if youre grouped, what does a warrior's overpower mean? free enrage, then you get healed back up to full.what does dodging a cheap shot or a 5bub KS mean? yup.

Cheers,

D2F

[keboman]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's good enough to sacrifice any of the "important" stats and the way itemization works for warriors there really is no reason to include it in the calculations.

[hazz]

that dodge/crit thing is quite easy to test: get a roguefriend of yours, let him use evasion and see what happens to your hitchance whilst you have activated recklessness. i highly doubt that a crit is a guaranteed hit.

imo this official post you have been referring to was a statement about +hit and +crit beeing of same value in terms of increasing dps aka "+crit equals +hit", which was kinda misleading if u didnt get the statistical approach of that post.

[HellCry]

Hit as in not a miss, think crits still can be dodged and parried.

[keboman]

No, they don't reduce the number of crits taken.

[Sapphire]

The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only. In other words, if you have a 5% crit rate, that 5% chance includes misses.

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-blizzard-archive-en&t=15&p=1&tmp=1#post15

[Tariel]

New hit chance = (Original hit%) + (toHit modifiers) - (crit modifiers)
60% + 5% - 5% = 60%

Does this show that +crit gear reduces your chance to hit?

[Malefactor]

New hit chance = (Original hit%) + (toHit modifiers) - (crit modifiers)
60% + 5% - 5% = 60%

Does this show that +crit gear reduces your chance to hit?

No, I think WOW calculates a hit as being a regular non-crit hit and a critical hit is calculated totally seperate. It shows that chance to hit reduces the miss rate not really improve your hit chance modifier directly.

[dragonboy]

lets say your crit chance is 20% and hit chance on your target is 90%, server does a random 1 100
1-20 - crit
21-90 - hit - non crit
91-100 - miss

[hazz]

The way WoW calculates crit rate is over ALL attacks. Crit rate is not based on hits only. In other words, if you have a 5% crit rate, that 5% chance includes misses.

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-blizzard-archive-en&t=15&p=1&tmp=1#post15

part1 and part2 are contradicting. i wont give a shit on this.

[Sapphire]

How are they contradictory? The first part says that crits are not just a subset of hits. The second part just takes this further by explaining how %crits + % hits + % misses = 100%.

[hazz]

part2 says: add 5% crit chance -> 5% more crits (20 -> 25)
part1 says: 5% crit chance include misses.

[Kaeto]

And both are true. If I have 50% crit, and 50% missrate, I'll hit half the time, and half the time I hit, it will be a crit. Only 1/4 of my attacks will crit, but that's normal because half of them are missing. You can't crit a miss, so while half those misses would have crit, they never hit anything to crit on.

The second part is typoed I believe, - he meant to write 80% base hit, the hit + miss should equal 100%.

[hazz]

sorry, but no..

before: out of 100 swings 20 crits (that DO land, coz no miss), 20 misses. thats a "real" critchance of 20/80 = 25%.
after: out of 100 25 crit 15 miss, "real" critchance: 25/85 = 29.4%.

29.4 - 25 != 5.

[Woody]

"defense"=>4.69);

why only 4,69? 5 Armor is better than 1 def Oo? You prefer 8500 Armor/ 300 Defence over 8000 Armor/400 Defence?