Vael aggro + tank switching

[BarryManilow]

Any tips? we arent making much progress...healers keep drawing aggro right off the start healing me when im MTing. i go in for 5 sunders then switch to HS/revenge/shield bash/ms, etc. im decked out in full FR gear (279 base)

how do u not draw heal aggro initially while MT builds hate?

is Defiance/tank spec crucial for aggro on this fight? all our warriors are PvP spec.

also, the tank transitions are brutal. once i get BA i take a fire pot, explode on the spot, then the next tank is supposed to move into position? does that sound right? thanks in advance

[epidemik]

Having warriors go 15 points into protection for defiance helps, also speccing healers with subtelty.

[Anduryondon]

well i tanked vael with the standard 31/20, i think its important that you spam sunder AND hs, because you can do 1 hs every sunder(worldcooldown, fast weapon ofc, i prefer eskhandars, julies or sth). While spamming HS use every ability you have.
Gl with vael, we needed 2-3 weeks to finish him (and its still a hard+lucky encounter)

[BarryManilow]

cool, interesting tips. we are giving it a go 2nite so ill try to mix in HS w/ the intial 5 sunders

[Wake]

Dont go full FR, mix it up, pretty sure that is what our tanks do.

[amaru]

his normal damage hurts aswell, not very clever to go tank him with full dark iron shit on

[khan3817]

The tank rotation is pretty crucial.

Just have people call out on vent/TS which warrior is highest (other than the MT tanking Vael) on the aggro list. This way the entire raid knows who next to heal, and the warrior himself knows that as soon as the MT drops he should move into position and begin MTing Vael.

You can even get all of the warriors, except for the MT and the "next MT in line" on the aggro list, to put on DPS gear and DPS. This assures you that none of them will aggro off of the tank, except for the next MT in line who can draw just enough aggro to put Vael on him when the MT drops and stay off of the entire raid.

A makeshift graph: w = warrior dps, n = next in line MT, t = MT. The warriors are all to Vael's right side. The next in line MT is on Vael's upper right leg.

--------VAEL---------(t)
w^w^w^w^w^ (n)

When the MT dies, the next in line for MT takes his spot, the dps warrior behind him puts on sword/board switches to defensive and begins to start to gain aggro. The cycle continues until Vael is dead (or your raid).

[^Deman]

After 3 weeks Vael wipe its more like the healers keep the group alive and the tanks after getting every third BA,i hate that encounter..i hate it really

[Mylar]

After 3 weeks Vael wipe its more like the healers keep the group alive and the tanks after getting every third BA,i hate that encounter..i hate it really

recruit some pallies then xD

[BarryManilow]

yeah we made pretty good progress last nite, thanks for the tips. it went well till our 3rd tank had to do the transition, he struggled with aggro.

we are having the tanks in line stick w a 2 hander till the mt gets BA, then they switch to shield/defense and start building hate. does that sound good?

[PcT]

:O Vael***** is one of the easiest bosses to _hold_ aggro on, (the tank switching is hard ofc) i mean with endless rage and a fast weapon only god sets the limit :)

[HellCry]

I have np getting aggro with 31/20. I am usually the first to tank after the initial tank goes down (mostly because the others have better FR and 15 pt in prot). Save you best tanks for last and to get him aggro you just spam everything you got. Im pretty sure I look like a pro piano player when i build my aggro on vael :D

[^Deman]

Last night i figured that the 5 sunders from the first Mt dissapear like in 5 sec after applyed, so it isnt hard for the second tank to get the aggro although i managed to get the agro with simple heroic spam before the first tank got BA

Anyway 8 rouges FTW if you count that 8 rouges do more than 300k dmg in a minute with backstabs and 5 c points i wish we had 8 :(

[Mylar]

Last night i figured that the 5 sunders from the first Mt dissapear like in 5 sec after applyed, so it isnt hard for the second tank to get the aggro although i managed to get the agro with simple heroic spam before the first tank got BA

Anyway 8 rouges FTW if you count that 8 rouges do more than 300k dmg in a minute with backstabs and 5 c points i wish we had 8 :(

wouldnt 100rage executes each 5th second(and recklesness)>> rogues?

[khan3817]

Yeh if you can get to 20% and you still have enough warriors up to make it a factor, of course.

[dNa]

Last night i figured that the 5 sunders from the first Mt dissapear like in 5 sec after applyed, so it isnt hard for the second tank to get the aggro although i managed to get the agro with simple heroic spam before the first tank got BA

Anyway 8 rouges FTW if you count that 8 rouges do more than 300k dmg in a minute with backstabs and 5 c points i wish we had 8 :(

wouldnt 100rage executes each 5th second(and recklesness)>> rogues?

Even not that good geared rogues do more dmg than the warriors and they say they could do like 30% more dmg but than they catch agro :P
Our good geared rogues with all timers with prep build do >10% of the whole raid dmg, while none meeles hardly ever get into top 10 dmg dealers its totally messed up imo :/

[Zillion]

Hi, i ve been browsing these forums for a while now and thought it might be a good time to reg and post my opinion on that matter.

I m one of the MTs of an european guild which is now at Ebonroc. About Vaelastraz we always had 2 protection warriors spamming sunder armor non stop (and only sunder armor) and 3 or more arms / fury warriors doing damage.

Usually the first tank lasts till 20% or so and the next on the aggro list is the second protection warrior spamming sunder with all our rogues vanishing before first MT dies. Post 20% every warrior switches to 1h+shield ready to tank , spam non stop executes and go tank in a random order depending on the threat generated by Execute (from that point i ve never seen any class drawing aggro off the executing warriors).

Honestly i ve read that theory months ago saying that sunder armor doesn't generate threat after 5 sunders are applied and after so many testing on Onyxia, MC bosses and BWL bosses so far. I have some serious doubts it's really working that way. Just my 2 cents

[Julemanden]

Honestly i ve read that theory months ago saying that sunder armor doesn't generate threat after 5 sunders are applied and after so many testing on Onyxia, MC bosses and BWL bosses so far. I have some serious doubts it's really working that way. Just my 2 cents

It does generat hate after the 5 sunders just redueced afaik.

[BarryManilow]

do you guys tank him facing the throne like in the NA video? or doesnt it matter really? i even hear of some guilds tanking him inside for corner near the steps

do u position any caster on top of the balconys to heal/dps to miss the AOE?

we are under the assumption the minimum buffed FR for the tanks is 300 and all else is 150? is that correct?

[Nastrand]

1. No
2. No
3. 250+ on tanks, not sure what the others have 150+ I would hope. Me and Onyx have 315+

[uro]

every nontank has 200+ with totem... i think pretty much every tank has over 300 with totem.

[BarryManilow]

cool thanks for the tips all...our cloth really needs more FR, as do our 3rd and 4th tanks. i have the most with 279 unbuffed...

they switched me to 2nd tank last nite to try to get the transitions down better...a few were ok, but 1 time a healer got aggro mid switch, then another i took aggro off the mt just spamming sunder w/ a few HS. doh.

uro nice cape but whats up with the hunter chest? ;)

[Savor]

Double post cause I'm amazing.

[Savor]

Attack Power whores. ;p

Edit: URO ALMOST LOOTED THE DRUID FERAL BP FROM BWL, TRUE FUCKING STORY.

[Arashi]

Edit: URO ALMOST LOOTED THE DRUID FERAL BP FROM BWL, TRUE FUCKING STORY.

That shit has 80AP, I would not almost loot it, i'd definatly do!11111oen

ps: not joking
pss: I think my spelling sucks, but I'm not sure :/

[uro]

Attack Power whores. ;p

Edit: URO ALMOST LOOTED THE DRUID FERAL BP FROM BWL, TRUE FUCKING STORY.

TRUE STORY. Untill i get the 60 AP/1 Crit 19 INT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hunter BP from ZG.

edit: whats with it barry? Its arguably the best DPS BP you can get. with the +4 to all, its 66 AP, 1.25 crit. more ap/crit than the Plate BP out of ZG, way more ap but a little less crit than the Rank 13 one.

[BarryManilow]

I dunno i think there are enuff ways to get good attack power w/o wearing mail/leather. quickstrike/onslaught/flameguard/endless rage, etc

i have chromatic breastplate but im getting close to the ZG epic, i think ill switch to that for pvp. i like to have a nice balance while keeping crit around 25-26%...just need my untamed to f'in drop.

im first in our ZG points but i think the speed nurf is gonna hurt Destroyer

[uro]

Meh, for PVP i stack AP/DPS as much as feasibly possible. I still have like 4900 HP and 4k armor even with my cape, bp, and crown of tyrrany (where the fuck are you endless rage?). Its not like people who want to win organized 5v5/AB target me anyway, and if they do? lol sword+board in your fucking rectum.

edit again: speed nerf is making zinrok an even stronger weapon because windfury/autoattack/sword procs arent affected. Untamed is still fucking good though, but in my eyes slightly worse than Zinrokh.

[Otzo]

Meh, for PVP i stack AP/DPS as much as feasibly possible. I still have like 4900 HP and 4k armor even with my cape, bp, and crown of tyrrany (where the fuck are you endless rage?). Its not like people who want to win organized 5v5/AB target me anyway, and if they do? lol sword+board in your fucking rectum.


May i ask why the hell do you have a mail breastplate? is 58 attack power and the stam really worth it? :O i'm currently having pvp breastplate, which i love (used to have valor rbeastplate for pvp) for the 1% crit chance and the nice stats.

[khan3817]

He said because people don't focus fire him or anything enough for it being mail to even make a difference, and if they did he would just put on a shield and they would back off.

[uro]

Meh, for PVP i stack AP/DPS as much as feasibly possible. I still have like 4900 HP and 4k armor even with my cape, bp, and crown of tyrrany (where the fuck are you endless rage?). Its not like people who want to win organized 5v5/AB target me anyway, and if they do? lol sword+board in your fucking rectum.


May i ask why the hell do you have a mail breastplate? is 58 attack power and the stam really worth it? :O i'm currently having pvp breastplate, which i love (used to have valor rbeastplate for pvp) for the 1% crit chance and the nice stats.

I used to use the blue PVP bp before i got this. This thing has .25% less crit, but about 40 AP more.

[dNa]

Meh, for PVP i stack AP/DPS as much as feasibly possible. I still have like 4900 HP and 4k armor even with my cape, bp, and crown of tyrrany (where the fuck are you endless rage?). Its not like people who want to win organized 5v5/AB target me anyway, and if they do? lol sword+board in your fucking rectum.


May i ask why the hell do you have a mail breastplate? is 58 attack power and the stam really worth it? :O i'm currently having pvp breastplate, which i love (used to have valor rbeastplate for pvp) for the 1% crit chance and the nice stats.

I used to use the blue PVP bp before i got this. This thing has .25% less crit, but about 40 AP more.

Btw how the hell do you stack your combat pots > 10 i really wanna know i hate to return to og always to get new ones :/

[Savor]

Buy 5 Combat pots, shift-click to drag each one into a stack of their own (1/1/1/1/1). Click and drag combat pots from the vendor into the individual stacks, you can repeat this infinitely. Enjoy.

[BarryManilow]

currently we r debating which hate generating moves the off tanks should use *sigh*. just pure sunders? mix it up? some1 in our guild insists the OTs use no sunders at all, just MS->HS->MS->HS

any tips appreciated

[khan3817]

Yeh, every single one of them can do as much aggro gaining abilities as the MT does if you want, but if won't make a difference because they won't overaggro if you give the MT a 6-7 second head start on Vael.

[dNa]

Yeh, every single one of them can do as much aggro gaining abilities as the MT does if you want, but if won't make a difference because they won't overaggro if you give the MT a 6-7 second head start on Vael.
It depends a lot on the weapons you are using being horde, you being alliance might just not be the right person to ask, sorry but Palas make a big difference -.-
Claws and julies daggers ftw @vael imo, our ots also have to stop the claw procced or mt might loose agro, no joke.

[Lodekim]

Here's what we do.

First tank goes in, defensive stance obviously, for us, he doesn't have defiance and I do. So as second tank, I go in right away in battle stance, at 15 seconds into the fight (2:45 left on Essence of the Red) I switch to defensive stance. This whole time I do Heroic Strike spam and Mortal Strike whenever it is up, using a 2 handed weapon,, 3.4 speed weapon is nice gives me lots of Heroics compared to slower. When our first tank gets burning adrenaline I stick on my sword and board and start spamming heroics and sunder armors.

Also, when our first tank gets burning adrenaline our rogues vanish, if they don't, there's a good chance that they can pull aggro. After the first tank dies, it goes to me fairly smoothly 95% of the time or something like that.

For our third and fourth tanks, they start in berserker I think, they spam MS, Whirlwind, Heroic Strike, and hamstring to try to proc sword specs for more damage. When Vael is at 22% we have them both switch to defensive stance and do the MS/HS spam until 19% when they put on the sword and board, go battle stance, and start executing. After I die, it almost always goes to one of them, and when the first one of them dies the next of them gets it. If you only have a few warriors you don't even need them to do defensive at 22%, we only do that to ensure they get aggro over the other executing warriors, if it doesn't matter to you which warrior gets it, you don't need to do that part.