Paldin Builds?

[Eko]

Anyone?

[FallenDevil]

hahahahaha

no but seriously 31 ret 20 holy where you put the points is all you.

[kernel16]

Holy Talents (27 points)


Spiritual Focus - 5/5 points
Gives your Flash of Light and Holy Light spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.


Improved Holy Light - 3/3 points
Increases the amount healed by your Holy Light spell by 12%.


Illumination - 5/5 points
After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light or Holy Light spell, gives you a 100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.


Improved Blessing of Wisdom - 5/5 points
Increases the effect of your Blessing of Wisdom by 20%.


Improved Flash of Light - 3/3 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Flash of Light spell by 12%.


Divine Favor - 1/1 point
When activated, gives your next Flash of Light or Holy Light spell a 100% critical effect chance.


Divine Wisdom - 5/5 points
Increases your total Mana by 10%.




Protection Talents (24 points)


Improved Devotion Aura - 5/5 points
Increases the armor bonus of your Devotion Aura by 25%.


Redoubt - 1/5 point
Increases your chance to block attacks with your shield by 6% after being the victim of a critical strike. Lasts 10 seconds or 5 blocks.


Improved Blessing of Protection - 2/2 points
Reduces the cooldown of your Blessing of Protection by 120 seconds.


Toughness - 5/5 points
Increases your armor value from items by 10%.


Shield Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the amount of damage absorbed by your shield by 25%.


Improved Blessing of Freedom - 5/5 points
Increases the duration of your Blessing of Freedom by 5 seconds.


Holy Shield - 1/1 point
Increases chance to block by 30% for 10 seconds and deals 50 Holy damage for each attack blocked while active. Each block expends a charge. 4 charges.

Level 40: 65 damage
Level 50: 95 damage
Level 60: 130 damage




Retribution Talents (0 points)


None

[FallenDevil]

ya that would be preist in plate build i was trying for alittle pvpish

[Dunderdon]

i have no clue about the paladin but i heard of builds like 19/20 holy and 31/32 protection, because 19 points holy are supposed to be enough to be a good/very good healer even for MC and stuff like that

and 31 in protection for the ability that is kind of like blind from rogues

but dont take my word for it :P

[Backdoor Beauty]

if you want PvP, then roll a class other than pally.

[arch]

if you want PvP, then roll a class other than pally.

That's just bullshit, paladins are probably even better than a priest in group PvP.

[Backdoor Beauty]

well, from what i could tell he was thinking solo PvP, hence the focus on more damage, less priest like builds.

Paladins are the shit in group PvP, unkillable healers basically. As for 1v1, roll something else, paladin is boring as hell.

[tng]

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Protection Total: 10


Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Retribution Total: 16


Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Improved Flash of Light Rank 1
Divine Wisdom Rank 5
Holy Total: 25

[khan3817]

Whatever will spam flash heal your dps the best and most efficiently.

[RubiksCube]

I've thought about a couple of builds here's my current (and favorite) one:



The Combat Healer
Protection Mastery

Redoubt Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Toughness Rank 3
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Freedom Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1

Protection Total: 26

Retribution Mastery

Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1

Retribution Total: 11

Holy Mastery

Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1

Holy Total: 14
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60


This is my Combat Healer Built. I''ve found it to be very effective in group PvP, the only way to interrupt you while healing is spell interrupts (d'oh)

Basically with this built, you combine all skills that are must-have's in my opionion. You get free crit heals with Illumination, and one guaranteed crit every 2 Minutes with Divine Favor. You get Seal of Command, which is the best way to do damage with a slow 2 hander, and you get Reckoning, Imp. Seal of Freedom and Holy Shield, which is pretty good Damage, too

The only direct way to do damage will be Reckoning (save up 4 crits while healing, hoj an oppenent, release), but it also is the only way for a Paladin to do controlled burst damage, so imo it's god. Nothing like 1 hitting a rogue when he is at 50%.

Perfect Equip would be Deathbringer (which dropped for our guild yesterday on an Onyxia Run where I couldn't make it /cry) and either Observer Shield or Engineering Shield.

Focus the rest of you equip around Int/Stam, healing and Mana/Restore.
Don't focus too heavily on either one, the mix is what does it in PvP.

My Paladin isn't perfectly equipped yet, so I have some Mailstuff that gives Stam, Agi, Int and % to crit (hunter gear basically). Trying to get Plate exclusively though.

Note: Focussing around Int before Str is essential for a healing built, I see so many Paladins with less than 4000 Mana it makes me cry. I have 5200 mana buffed with Arcane Intellect, which is pretty decent, since I'm not fully equipped yet (Gonna get the Chitinous Legplates from Strat and Energized Chestplate from DM East).

There's a pretty nice Plate drop in DM North, too.
Gallant's Wristguards drop from Guard Slip'nik, Plate Bracers with 14 Int and 29 Healing, coupled with an Healpower Enchant, I get 53 Healing and 14 Int from the bracers alone, which is something I've had priests envy me for. It's a green Item, so it gets overlooked quite often, but imo it's the best plate bracers before Lawbringer.

[Apotheosis]

I used to have a build similar to Rubik's, but I'm considering changing now that there is a cooldown on weapon swaps: having both Holy Shield and Seal of Command seems foolish. Perhaps the cooldown on swapping will be a smaller deal than I'm anticipating. Anyhoo, here are the builds I've found effective:

Holy: (29 points)

Spiritual Focus 5/5
Improved Holy Light 3/3
Illumination 5/5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom 5/5
Divine Wisdom 5/5
Divine Favor 1/1
Improved Flash of Light 3/3
Revelation 2/2

Protection: (11 points)

Improved Devotion Aura 5/5
Improved Blessing of Protection 2/2
Toughness 4/5

Retribution (11 points)

Improved Blessing of Might 5/5
Benediction 5/5
Seal of Command 1/1

This is a weapon swap build, intended to combat heal most of the time and weapon swap to UF or some other high DPS 2her when the opportunity arises, and use SoC.

The following build is one I'm considering switching to once the global cooldown for weapon swap arrives. It is as follows:

Holy (19 points)

Spiritual Focus 5/5
Improved Holy Light 3/3
Illumination 5/5
Divine Favor 1/1
Revelation 2/2
Improved Flash of Light 3/3
Improved Blessing of Wisdom 1/5

Protection (32 points)

Improved Devotion Aura 5/5
Toughness 5/5
Improved Blessing of Protection 2/2
Shield Specialization 5/5
Holy Shield 1/1
5/5 Improved Seal of Justice
5/5 Reckoning
2/5 Redoubt
1/1 Repentance

This build makes me into a highly survivable healer AND a great spell interrupter, with Hammer of Justice, Seal of Justice, and Repentance all providing great ways to interrupt other healers. I don't like losing out on Improved Blessing of Wisdom and Divine Wisdom here, but it makes Seal of Justice stun extremely frequently. If I don't have anyone to heal, I run around and interupt spellcasters with my dinky little 1her, and wait for Reckoning to build up to actually do damage.

I think all 60 Paladins I respect agree on one thing: Retribution is our weakest tree. I'd lean heavily towards Protection and Holy.

[Apotheosis]

As another note, +healing is partcularly potent for Paladins and Druids, so I'd build up on that, if you can. I lean towards the following statistics, in the following order:

Stamina
Intellect
+Healing
AC
Resist value
Mana regen

If I can get an item with a healthy amount of 5 of these things, I'm happy. Many of our epic items in MC/BWL have 5 in abundance, or even all 6 of them. Strength, Agility, and Spirit, +attack power, +spell damage, +melee crit are all well behind these: the only other stastic I consider relevant is +spell crit. Which means I think our PvP gear is pretty crappy.

[RubiksCube]

I don't weapon swap generally. When I 1v1 Mages I do, but ideally I have my Deathbringer out with a shield. Seal of Command does good on a deathbringer. :)

For equipment, as I said "Gallants Wristbands" drop from guard Slip'nik or something in DM Nord (The guard that has to be captured in an ice trap). They have 14 Int, 29 Healing.

[Apotheosis]

I have a Paladin friend with Deathbringer, Rubiks, and while SoC certainly does more damage than SoR, I'm not convinced it's a larger enough gap to justify spending 11 points in Retribution to get it; while Improved BoM and Benediction are fine talents, they are largely filler to acquire SoC for me. I haven't crunched the numbers since I don't have a deathbringer yet (or ever, possibly), but it's quite possible that the DPS one can do with Righteousness would be close enough that those 11 extra points would be better spent getting Holy Shock or preferrably Repentance.

[Gfresh]

Holy Talents - 4 points
Spiritual Focus rank 1/5
Improved Holy Light rank 3/3

Protection Talents - 31 points
Redoubt rank 5/5
Improved Blessing of Protection rank 2/2
Toughness rank 5/5
Blessing of Sanctuary rank 1/1
Shield Specialization rank 5/5
Improved Blessing of Freedom rank 1/5
Improved Seal of Justice rank 5/5
Reckoning rank 5/5
Holy Shield rank 1/1
Repentance rank 1/1

Retribution Talents - 16 points
Benediction rank 5/5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization rank 5/5
Vengeance rank 5/5
Seal of Command rank 1/1

In other words:
Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladins/talents.html?0130000000000000525105155100105500510 00000)

[RubiksCube]

I have a Paladin friend with Deathbringer, Rubiks, and while SoC certainly does more damage than SoR, I'm not convinced it's a larger enough gap to justify spending 11 points in Retribution to get it; while Improved BoM and Benediction are fine talents, they are largely filler to acquire SoC for me. I haven't crunched the numbers since I don't have a deathbringer yet (or ever, possibly), but it's quite possible that the DPS one can do with Righteousness would be close enough that those 11 extra points would be better spent getting Holy Shock or preferrably Repentance.

The Mainfactor for taking Seal of Command over SoR is higher burst damage, as opposed to dps. I have done the math and given the attack power on my char atm I can do SoC crits as high as 1100 Damage with the Deathbringer

[Theldon]

if you want PvP, then roll a class other than pally.

That's just bullshit, paladins are probably even better than a priest in group PvP.

Nope, all guildies and in-game friends all hate there pallies in PVP. They can't DPS at all. A priest can at aleast DPS. Paladin's are great PvE classes.

[Apotheosis]

Nope, all guildies and in-game friends all hate there pallies in PVP. They can't DPS at all. A priest can at aleast DPS. Paladin's are great PvE classes.

Hating a class doesn't prove it's bad, it just suggests that it isn't your friends' preferred style of play. A class can be POWERFUL and BORING simultaneously. I personally believe my Paladin is very powerful, and I enjoy the highly defensive playstyle; if your friends do not, they're free to quit, reroll, or wait and hope for a change to the class that makes it more appealing to them.

[RubiksCube]

"They hate their Paladins in PvP. They can't DPS."

Well, maybe they do play the wrong class. I enjoy my Paladin in PvP, but I'm rarely doing any DPS either. I heal a lot, cleanse a lot and sometimes, sometimes do DPS.

Always fun to announce in Ventrilo: "Hey guys, I got 4 crits, watch that mage".

-Mage goes from 100% to 12%-

Woohoo :)

[arch]

if you want PvP, then roll a class other than pally.

That's just bullshit, paladins are probably even better than a priest in group PvP.

Nope, all guildies and in-game friends all hate there pallies in PVP. They can't DPS at all. A priest can at aleast DPS. Paladin's are great PvE classes.

The problem doesn't lie with the class, but with your friends.

[Vahz]

The only direct way to do damage will be Reckoning (save up 4 crits while healing, hoj an oppenent, release), but it also is the only way for a Paladin to do controlled burst damage, so imo it's god. Nothing like 1 hitting a rogue when he is at 50%.

Pardon the ignorance since I haven't played a paladin since beta but can you specify what the abbreviations mean? :)

[Apotheosis]

The only Paladin specific Acronym in that quotation is "hoj," which stands for "Hammer of Justice." The 6 second stun that Paladins have.

[Vahz]

Right but the only part I'm trying to figure out is "saving crits" from Reckoning.

[Soruss]

soc/reck/holy spec ftw.

Getting hit back for 400 damage off a hamstring crit sucks.

The paladin that I play with uses a very similar build to rubiks' and he is the most amazing pvp healer I have ever played with. I'd take him over any priest/druid/other any day. Granted, this is most likely due more to the player than the class and spec, but it proves that paladins can be a strong component to group pvp.

[RubiksCube]

Right but the only part I'm trying to figure out is "saving crits" from Reckoning.

There's a talent in the protection tree called "Reckoning". The tooltip states it gives you 20% Chance per Talentpoint invested to receive an extra attack when victim of a crit.

However, contrary to popular believe of non-paladins, you do not gain an extra attack inbetween swings when getting crittet in melee combat, similar to what sword-spec would be doing.

What reckoning does is, when engaged in combat and being victim of a crit it simply resets your swing timer (which is thought to be a bug), so you'll insta attack and then wait the whole weapon speed for your next attack unless, of course, you're critted again.

Sound pretty sucky, huh?

Well, what it also does, when not engaged in combat (aka. your auto attack is OFF), is save an extra hit for every crit you're taking, be it melee crits, ranged crits or spell crits. It saves up hits up to a maximum number of 4 extra attacks (used to be unlimited, but got nerfed pretty quickly).

So basically, you stand in a stunlock from a rogue with auto-attack off, because you can't attack anyways, come out of the stun, stun him with Hammer of Justice and auto-attack. Reckoning will release every extra attack saved on the first swing. With a big, slow weapon that can make for some nice damage.

The talent is of pretty limited use in a 1v1 situation aside from being stunned or otherwise unable to attack (out of range), because you won't stand there and take a beating just for the burst of a reckoning.

In a group PvP situation where you are one of the healers, which you ARE regardless of talent spec, just because you CAN heal, the talent shines. When you're healing you have a friendly unit targeted thus your auto attack is automatically turned off unless you use passive targeting. As a healer you will get focussed at some point, which you can shake of by Divine Shielding, so you save up extra attacks while healing.

You get the idea. Basically I can run in with my melees getting critted by AoEs, or by the normals swings of a rogue. Paladins can heal w/o being interrupted by damage, so at the point where you have received 4 crits you can dish out some damage in a split second and than go back to healing w/o having to worry about loosing concentration on whom to heal when, while trying to do the random damage peaks that is seal of command.

[raomckay]

Rubik

What order would you take talents for your posted "Combat Healer".

Thanks

[RubiksCube]

Rubik

What order would you take talents for your posted "Combat Healer".

Thanks

Well, it's basically a level 60 build, I took the retribution tree to level the paladin.

But if you want to directly go with that built I'd suggest to put the first 11 points in retribution to get seal of command at level 20. Let someone help you to get Verigan's Fist which you can use until you find something with a better top end.

then spent the points in protection, they're pretty lineary, take up imp. blessing of freedom as late as possible.

When you're done with protection, aka. you have reckoning maxed out, take up on the holy tree and get to divine favor asap.

spent the rest of the points in holy in either Imp. Holy Light, if you're focussed around PvP mainly or Imp. Flash of Light if your main aspect is PvE.

[Apotheosis]

I have to say I disagree strongly with Rubiks on the use of Seal of Command now. After signficant consideration about the difference in damage output between SoCommand and SoRighteousness, I've decided that Repentance with another 5 points in Holy is significantly superior to 11 points in Retribution to get SoCommand.

I do agree however that Retribution is best for leveling. Assuming you spend most of your leveling time alone and grinding, increasing your D/s as much as possible is going to be the goal. Defense and healing, in general, are abilities used when the game is difficult and challenging, be it in PvP or PvE. Grinding is easy; the goal is just to get it over with as fast as possible.

[RubiksCube]

I just made some damage tests, Apotheosis, and I gotta say I did them to prove my point, but I was wrong.

I admit, I might have been impressed with the flashy numbers of Seal of Command, but for steady dps, Seal of Righteousness seems to be better with weapons below a speed of ~3.5

I didn't do the maths yet, but seeing as how I miss out on repentance and Imp. Flash of Light, I gotta rethink my whole built.

Burst Damage in this built comes from reckoning alone, if you only think group.

If you want to be able to hold yourself in solo pvp, however, you need a slow 2 hander and Seal of Command.

In my opinion there simply is next to no Solo PvP unless you're farming, so I will rethink the build and eventually come up with something new.

[Balanar]

Paladin


for alittle pvpish

:D LOL :D

[KhaZmo]

this is my 6th pally since the closed us beta and i tested alot of builds. i always tried to find a very PvP viable talentbuild so the build posted below is a very PvP oriented talentbuild.

the 19/32 or 20/31 posted before is moderate or acceptable for me. i would prefer it over every retri spec build :)
but i prefer another build for a long time now. i often respecced to another build, but i always came back to this one:

9 (8 of them important in my opinion) in holy:
5 spiritual focuss (must have)
3 holy light (must have)
1 revelation

31 (all needed because of repentance) in protection:
5 redoubt (nice for holy shield and imp devo aura just sux)
2 imp blessing of protection (must have, best blessing)
5 toughness (healer with more armor = good)
5 shield spec (pre for holy shield)
2 imp blessing of freedom (one of the best blessings palas have)
5 imp seal of justice (pre for repentance)
5 reckoning (must have)
1 holy shield (must have)
1 repentance (must have)

11 (nice damage boost if u use a slow 2hander) in retribution:
5 benediction (better than imp BoM but not a great talent)
5 2hand spec (nice damage improve)
1 seal of command
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the point why i prefer seal of command instead of divine favor in holy is, because in my opinion divine favor is just a nice talent mainly for PvE.
if i turn on divine favor in a PvP fight, i get interrupted most of the time, because of the glimmering effect of divine favor which tells everybody "HI i wanna make a big heal on anyone else, plz counterspell/kick/etc me!"
seal of command is just the best seal a pala can use in PvP. its very manaefficient (purge/dispell isnt worth it) and is the only seal with which u can have a chance to deal burst damage. also if it depends on luck, its your best chance to deal burst damage with a paladin besides reckoning (which u can only use after u got hit critically, never forget)

PS: just a little trick if u didnt know
if u use blessing of sacrifice on 2-3 of your party members you are non-sheep, non-seduce, non-sapable. tested alot and it just rules.
sheep, seduce, sap are all interupted if you get damage, and if any of your party members gets hit in PvP you will be freed :D