Futurity
08-02-2005, 07:44 PM
Recently my guild changed games. We have chosen WoW becuase we thought its good PvP game.
I convinced them to go Archimonde...mostly becuase i wanted to challenge You and We like challenges.
Im level 52 mage now(same name Futurity). I started to learn WoW mechanics, especially WoW so called PvP system. You probably knows where its going.
IMO WoW PvP servers are only PvP from name.
Let me explain why:
PvP stands for Player versus Player. its ONLY about player and his skill.
Your character level and gear is JUST tool used in PvP. Its just happened that level 60 is greater tool than lvl 40.
Simple as that i dont care much if i die(killed by ?? or not). If there is a lot of horde in main game world i just level in instances.
I want to get my main PvP tool(my level) as fast as i can so i can be able to compete in PvP.
EDIT: here is my journey on WoW PvP servers...and how i realized they are not PvP.
Chapter ONE So sometimes i died, ate my corpse run...i dont care. i had ZERO CPs so i couldnt give a lvl ??(probably lvl 60) any CPs(he just wasted his time). But then i learned he will NEVER gain any CPs even if i have some!! then i thought to myself...its not PvP. Its NOT Players versus Player. its game character vs game character in some level range.
Chapter TWO: So later on i gained some CPs and i noticed that i dont loose CPs when i die from player. Staying alive is PvP skill IMO and loosing CPs is based on your survival skills in PvP. i was surprised that WoW is against PvP skill.
Chapter THREE: From my game experince i start to think about abusing such sytem.
i dont care if i die....Lets make 5 mages(or more) AE party. Let them charge 20 players. AE them getting CPs...some of mages obivously dies(sometimes even not gaining any CPs) but we dont care we dont loose CPs. Now if a mage would loose his CPs he would think twice before charging(what if i got killed and dont get any CPs, only loose...). Now this system in WoW leads to mindless PvP and zergs.
Chapter FOUR: Some time passed and i got 50. i start to look around for town raids and mass PvP(i didnt want to be any challenge but i just wanted to see them). Nothing. No town raids, no mass PvP. so i think they are probably having mass PvP in AV. So i started to gather information about it and i was frightened. Its PvE with some PVP!!! There is more NPCs than Players!!
and its 40vs40. its just little close to mass. so i was surprised that players on PvP server are against mass PvP(without PvE involved)...which is best FUN there can be. They werent. it happened that there are NPCs which gives You DKs(and big lost of CPs) so nobody wants to do town raids. Nice, a system that discourage PvP on PvP server. Thats just wrong.
I adressed 4 things that IMO points that WoW PvP servers are only PvP from name. WoW doesnt have PvP. i felt very sad because i had great hopes about this game.
Of course i tried to think whats behind those 4 adressed problems.
Reasons behind ONE Its NOT Players versus Player. its game character vs game character in some level range.
Probably some low level players were killed by ??. They felt its wrong. They wanted PvE in peace and PvP of their own level and still be called PvPers
first PvE in peace:
If they roll on PvP server for PvE(questing, grinding) they made wrong choice. PvE provides You tools(your level, gear) for PvP on PvP server. Its your problem if You cant get your tools. Its just happened that some player has better tools(like lvl 60 character) than other player(with level 40 character). I realy would see their point being valid if they couldnt level at all. but they can level in peace in instances.
PvP of their own level:
You need to realize Its not realy PvP... its game character vs game character in some level range. But i can understand You want challenage with players with same tools. Go Warson Glutch(if You cant find any games there ...You will know where other low level PvPers are..they are getting their tools for challenging PvP in main world).
to be called PvPers:
You can be called PvPer in Your level only if You fight in world available for players in Your level range(players with same tools)... like Warson Glutch. On PvP server main game world is available for all levels(1-60).
So if You want PvE in Peace and/or PvP in your level range through all your levels then You dont belong to PvP server. Let me say it in diffrent way: IF You want BALANCED PvE and PvP from level 1 to 60...then You dont belong in PvP server. If You are a PLAYER who has tools such: level 40 game character and some gear and You think You will be able to compete in main world PvP. You wrong. You just dont have the tools...so go get Your tools or leave.
Another issue is that some players with crappy tools(low level) but with CPs would have had value to lvl ??... so there would be so called ganking involved....thats invalid bcause player with crappy tools and NO CPs would be same as now and again player would have to be forced to get better tools for PvP so he can be able to compete(read so he can at least keep his CPs)....that leads to another problem of not loosing CPs upon death..
Reasons behind TWO i was surprised that WoW is agains PvP skill.
People are afraid to loose stuff that they worked for(like CPs). But PvP is about skill and every aspect of it should be considered: Making damage and survival. First one is field of damage dealers(mages blah blah) second of healers and individual survival skills. IMO healers were taken of their CPs.(and i know they gain CPs if they in party)
Reasons behind THREENow this system in WoW leads to mindless PvP and zergs.
I have explained why system can be abused it such form...(is it??)
Reasons behind FOURNice, a system that discourage PvP on PvP server.
There are good PvP system which encourage players of PvP and there are bad ones.
Lets try find reasons behind DKs on civilians:
Most raids took place on lowbies area. Which was obvious since players wanted more of PvP and not PvE(monsters around lowbies area are low level aswell). PvPer will look for pure PvP. But in those lowbie towns there are NPC and those NPC has quests. STOP!! Its PvE You talk about. lots of PvE stuff was adrresed in 1st point. No balanced PvE on PvP server. Sorry.
Another reason behind civilians and DKs would be that lots of players in same area would lag the server. Its valid point but if its valid then Blizzard failed with their hardware(You know what i talk about..cables...routers etc :)).
Little conclusion: WoW PvP servers arent PvP. :)
But i dont like to leave stuff like that....with unsolved problems..i like solving stuff....so i will try to suggest a fix to WoW PvP.
General PvP Rules:
EDIT: Please try to think about those changes as overroll, as one and how they will affect PvP. Dont take one out and say in wont work in system we have now(because it wont).
- player can kill any player anywhere, anytime.except realy low levelers.
- player start with no CP.No ganking o lowbies who has no way of PvP
- every player is worth same CPs no matter of tools they have.
- player loose CPs upon death. Same amount he gains from killing another player
- player with no CPs is worth no CPs and is flagged as Chickenso that players with much greater tools would know if he is worth his time.
EDIT: - player flagged as Chicken is worth CPs to players in level range of '1' to 'player level +10'
World changes:
- no Dishonorable kills. Lets promote PvP
- New ingame object: Pillar of Teleportation*
*The main problem with the system i suggested is that there can be ganking on instances entrances( the ganking is there now...but will be much stronger). Therefor i think there should be Pillars of Teleportation spread out over area(like 5 pillars in 1 area), Through those pillars You can choose instance(and only instance) You want to go in that area. Give the casting time on Pillar of Teleportation long enaugh to prevent abuse of it(like escape from PvP). I have a feeling though Pillars of Teleportation are against WoW traveling policy. But there would be one major advantage. Players who want to do instances wouldnt flood main game world with traveling therefor PvP servers would be less stressed out.
Its damn long post. i had real need to write it. i have a feeling its somehow my bye bye to gaming. i doubt WoW will keep me playing(im sure i will get soem tools first though ;)).
if You think im wrong. Please tell me where and why. i have no problem in admitting i was wrong :). But please remember what PvP stands for...
and of course i want to hear what Your idea of PvP server is :)
I convinced them to go Archimonde...mostly becuase i wanted to challenge You and We like challenges.
Im level 52 mage now(same name Futurity). I started to learn WoW mechanics, especially WoW so called PvP system. You probably knows where its going.
IMO WoW PvP servers are only PvP from name.
Let me explain why:
PvP stands for Player versus Player. its ONLY about player and his skill.
Your character level and gear is JUST tool used in PvP. Its just happened that level 60 is greater tool than lvl 40.
Simple as that i dont care much if i die(killed by ?? or not). If there is a lot of horde in main game world i just level in instances.
I want to get my main PvP tool(my level) as fast as i can so i can be able to compete in PvP.
EDIT: here is my journey on WoW PvP servers...and how i realized they are not PvP.
Chapter ONE So sometimes i died, ate my corpse run...i dont care. i had ZERO CPs so i couldnt give a lvl ??(probably lvl 60) any CPs(he just wasted his time). But then i learned he will NEVER gain any CPs even if i have some!! then i thought to myself...its not PvP. Its NOT Players versus Player. its game character vs game character in some level range.
Chapter TWO: So later on i gained some CPs and i noticed that i dont loose CPs when i die from player. Staying alive is PvP skill IMO and loosing CPs is based on your survival skills in PvP. i was surprised that WoW is against PvP skill.
Chapter THREE: From my game experince i start to think about abusing such sytem.
i dont care if i die....Lets make 5 mages(or more) AE party. Let them charge 20 players. AE them getting CPs...some of mages obivously dies(sometimes even not gaining any CPs) but we dont care we dont loose CPs. Now if a mage would loose his CPs he would think twice before charging(what if i got killed and dont get any CPs, only loose...). Now this system in WoW leads to mindless PvP and zergs.
Chapter FOUR: Some time passed and i got 50. i start to look around for town raids and mass PvP(i didnt want to be any challenge but i just wanted to see them). Nothing. No town raids, no mass PvP. so i think they are probably having mass PvP in AV. So i started to gather information about it and i was frightened. Its PvE with some PVP!!! There is more NPCs than Players!!
and its 40vs40. its just little close to mass. so i was surprised that players on PvP server are against mass PvP(without PvE involved)...which is best FUN there can be. They werent. it happened that there are NPCs which gives You DKs(and big lost of CPs) so nobody wants to do town raids. Nice, a system that discourage PvP on PvP server. Thats just wrong.
I adressed 4 things that IMO points that WoW PvP servers are only PvP from name. WoW doesnt have PvP. i felt very sad because i had great hopes about this game.
Of course i tried to think whats behind those 4 adressed problems.
Reasons behind ONE Its NOT Players versus Player. its game character vs game character in some level range.
Probably some low level players were killed by ??. They felt its wrong. They wanted PvE in peace and PvP of their own level and still be called PvPers
first PvE in peace:
If they roll on PvP server for PvE(questing, grinding) they made wrong choice. PvE provides You tools(your level, gear) for PvP on PvP server. Its your problem if You cant get your tools. Its just happened that some player has better tools(like lvl 60 character) than other player(with level 40 character). I realy would see their point being valid if they couldnt level at all. but they can level in peace in instances.
PvP of their own level:
You need to realize Its not realy PvP... its game character vs game character in some level range. But i can understand You want challenage with players with same tools. Go Warson Glutch(if You cant find any games there ...You will know where other low level PvPers are..they are getting their tools for challenging PvP in main world).
to be called PvPers:
You can be called PvPer in Your level only if You fight in world available for players in Your level range(players with same tools)... like Warson Glutch. On PvP server main game world is available for all levels(1-60).
So if You want PvE in Peace and/or PvP in your level range through all your levels then You dont belong to PvP server. Let me say it in diffrent way: IF You want BALANCED PvE and PvP from level 1 to 60...then You dont belong in PvP server. If You are a PLAYER who has tools such: level 40 game character and some gear and You think You will be able to compete in main world PvP. You wrong. You just dont have the tools...so go get Your tools or leave.
Another issue is that some players with crappy tools(low level) but with CPs would have had value to lvl ??... so there would be so called ganking involved....thats invalid bcause player with crappy tools and NO CPs would be same as now and again player would have to be forced to get better tools for PvP so he can be able to compete(read so he can at least keep his CPs)....that leads to another problem of not loosing CPs upon death..
Reasons behind TWO i was surprised that WoW is agains PvP skill.
People are afraid to loose stuff that they worked for(like CPs). But PvP is about skill and every aspect of it should be considered: Making damage and survival. First one is field of damage dealers(mages blah blah) second of healers and individual survival skills. IMO healers were taken of their CPs.(and i know they gain CPs if they in party)
Reasons behind THREENow this system in WoW leads to mindless PvP and zergs.
I have explained why system can be abused it such form...(is it??)
Reasons behind FOURNice, a system that discourage PvP on PvP server.
There are good PvP system which encourage players of PvP and there are bad ones.
Lets try find reasons behind DKs on civilians:
Most raids took place on lowbies area. Which was obvious since players wanted more of PvP and not PvE(monsters around lowbies area are low level aswell). PvPer will look for pure PvP. But in those lowbie towns there are NPC and those NPC has quests. STOP!! Its PvE You talk about. lots of PvE stuff was adrresed in 1st point. No balanced PvE on PvP server. Sorry.
Another reason behind civilians and DKs would be that lots of players in same area would lag the server. Its valid point but if its valid then Blizzard failed with their hardware(You know what i talk about..cables...routers etc :)).
Little conclusion: WoW PvP servers arent PvP. :)
But i dont like to leave stuff like that....with unsolved problems..i like solving stuff....so i will try to suggest a fix to WoW PvP.
General PvP Rules:
EDIT: Please try to think about those changes as overroll, as one and how they will affect PvP. Dont take one out and say in wont work in system we have now(because it wont).
- player can kill any player anywhere, anytime.except realy low levelers.
- player start with no CP.No ganking o lowbies who has no way of PvP
- every player is worth same CPs no matter of tools they have.
- player loose CPs upon death. Same amount he gains from killing another player
- player with no CPs is worth no CPs and is flagged as Chickenso that players with much greater tools would know if he is worth his time.
EDIT: - player flagged as Chicken is worth CPs to players in level range of '1' to 'player level +10'
World changes:
- no Dishonorable kills. Lets promote PvP
- New ingame object: Pillar of Teleportation*
*The main problem with the system i suggested is that there can be ganking on instances entrances( the ganking is there now...but will be much stronger). Therefor i think there should be Pillars of Teleportation spread out over area(like 5 pillars in 1 area), Through those pillars You can choose instance(and only instance) You want to go in that area. Give the casting time on Pillar of Teleportation long enaugh to prevent abuse of it(like escape from PvP). I have a feeling though Pillars of Teleportation are against WoW traveling policy. But there would be one major advantage. Players who want to do instances wouldnt flood main game world with traveling therefor PvP servers would be less stressed out.
Its damn long post. i had real need to write it. i have a feeling its somehow my bye bye to gaming. i doubt WoW will keep me playing(im sure i will get soem tools first though ;)).
if You think im wrong. Please tell me where and why. i have no problem in admitting i was wrong :). But please remember what PvP stands for...
and of course i want to hear what Your idea of PvP server is :)