Shaman: Troll or Tauren?

[Renton]

Although this is my first post, I have been following Nurfed fairly closely, and the 2 main reasons I've decided to go shaman are instant-casts and Nurfed. Anyways, I've taken orc out of the running for race, so heres how I see it:
Tauren:
2 second stomp, enough time to get off a lesser heal
+5% health
+10 nature resistance
Troll:
Below 20% health, +25% casting/melee speed (cooldown?)
10% health regen in combat/total ***If this stacks with Combat Endurance, 20% health regen in combat???***

The tauren is very enticing, and I have already had 2 shaman as tauren (lvls 3 and 13), but if troll health regen stacks with endurance, that seems pretty major, or is it just me?

Also, because (IMO) shaman are more nukes/heals/defense than melee dps, I figured go dagger (speed for interrupting spells) and shield for block/defense. Comments on everything would be super duper.

[Jinsai]

Orc, because they're sexy.

[Zaknafien]

Tauren, simply because of the stun capability.

[Renton]

so you don't think that the regenerations stack -or- that if they did, tauren stomp is still > regeneration?

[Zaknafien]

Stomp is just better. We have healing to recover HP, theres no other way(besides items) to get a shaman stun.

[Hiero]

from what i hear, that regen does not stack, you get 10%, max

[Jozen]

If that's the case, I might as well be a Tauren.

So does Troll regen stack with Blood Craze (The warrior regen after getting critted)?

[Real]

Orc, because they're sexy.

So damn true!

[Renton]

bah, so many things in this game do not make sense.

[JonChron]

Whether regen stacks or not; that berserk is pretty neat to have.
At higher levels 20% of your hp would be close to 700+ meaning in a 1v1 you would have to get critted to die at this point.
-The only down side is that you have to cast berserk, and it has that 1 second cooldown for all your spells. Meaning you need to stay alive for another second at <20% in order to start casting again.

If you can manage, I found that dropping a snare totem and getting some range was a nice way to buy some time before I could heal once and quickly get into wolf form so I could get far enough to heal to full. Add this to your instant cast heal and troll shaman have 3 lives. Berserk has a 2 minute cooldown, but how often are you below 20% hp?

Berserk is not good for mass pvp, but it does work in instances ;)

On the other hand if you go Tauren, your 5% hp is nice, but not alot. The main focus would be the PBAOE stun.

Say you earth shock a priest, and he can't heal for 2 seconds. You still have 3 to 4 seconds left before you can earth shock him again once he starts casting. With the stun, you could break his casting while your shocks are down and get a heal off on yourself before earth shocking him soon after. Throw engineering in with this mix and you will be worthy of getting nerfed.

The stun can also be used to buy time to get some range, cast a spell without interruption, or can even be used in mass pvp on up to 4? targets.

Tauren shaman are probably more reliable than trolls, but not as sexy. Tauren also seem to get targetted before most others, and they don't dance very well. Good players will know that if you are a troll, they should probably focus alot of dps on you when you're low hp so that you can't zerk.

[Nail]

As a shaman, if you get down to 20% of hp, you'll be thinking NS and fat heal, not worried about hitting zerk and speeding up your casting/melee. I can see some utility in PvE when you can deal with 20% vs mobs that don't hit for 1k/per, but in PvP I think it'd be inconsequential.

Whereas the stomp is a lifesaver when it lands, is AoE, and is coupled with more stamina. Tauren shaman for the win. I also don't think I could handle listening to that troll laugh on a regular basis....the inn in Org ruined me for that. In the sexy file, orcs have that cold, but no racial traits worth purusing. Blood thirst (or whatever it's named) is comically bad for shaman.

[Jozen]

Yes, the Orc Activated Racial trait is kinda sad. I can see how having a PBAOE stun could be very useful for saving your butt. Engineering was mentioned as another way to have spell interrupts?

I was planning on going Alchemy for the buffs and Mana and Healing potions, but is Engineering a much more viable profession for PvP?

[rjah]

When hero classes come in and my orc shaman gets bloodlust, all you tauren shamans will be green with envy.

[Jozen]

IF hero classes come in :-/

[JonChron]

Yes, the Tauren's bonus to herbalism is only to encourage you not to get engineering because crowd control that allows you to continue to hit your enemies is the best ability in any pvp game. (Fear/Stun)

Think of shaman berserk as a back up after you have used NS heal. Yes, this will rarely happen, but a good Troll shaman would rarely die.

Rather than get alchemy, once you have maxed engineering, drop mining and get herbalism up. This way you can supply your friend who is an alchemist with all the materials he needs to create the potions that you and your guild need most.

Of course now you will have to buy ore if you want to make your own bombs, but like your alchemist buddy may depend on you for materials, you can depend on another engineer to make bombs you will save for important fights. It's a little tricky, but you can have plenty of potions and still use bombs and other gadgets at higher lvls.

[Renton]

DUHHHH...

forgot that shaman were pretty much all out insta-casts... so seeing how noone uses lighting bolt ( i dont, not sure about yall) unless its to pull, and noones gonna pull with below 20% hp, it seems as if 20% hp regen in combat/10% out vs. 2 sec stun ?

anyone know how much more hp you regen a second at any random level? not sure how much hp shaman have or what their ticks have, ive only gotten to 13. :-}

[Rambar]

Eh, I didn't have a spirit build but I'd say your combat regen at level 60 is going to be about 5 or 6 hp a sec.

[Renton]

ugh... 6hp/second.. small but not, ya know what i mean... That is passive though, and its permanent, and stun is only every 2 mins for 2 seconds... i yi yi zordon! Since theres no way im passing up the 3 shock talents (mana/dmg/cooldown), id get it at 35... Someone please comment on this.

*Edit*
In another post I found this link.
http://exiled-guild.org/images/NurfedUI.jpg
That 58 preist is (or was) getting 27 hp/tick. Uh..... He seemed to be in combat, at least at the time of his death.

[undie]

erm; aren't you all forgetting that troll bonus lasts like 30 seconds ?


so when you run out of health, you cast it, then you cast heal (which will now cast alot faster).

and you'll have attackspeed& casting speed bonus for a while. and a shaman at 20% health = Not a shaman in trouble; if you're even a bit experienced you won't lose your cool&just cast the racial and kill the idiot that attacked you..

War stomp for a shaman... how on earth is that useful ? your shockspells can cancel enemy casting& slow movement when needed. And you can shock every 5(?) seconds.

And 20% health regen = better than 5% more hp because large fights tend to last long.

[Jozen]

The warstomp is a free interrupt and stun. Good against people running and people casting. At 20% there's plenty of stuff that can happen to make you die, and quick.

[undie]

warstomp isn't even instant.. instead of stunning him for 2 seconds..

i'd throw in a shock :p thats what shamans are good at..

[Renton]

A 2 second stun is enough time to get off a heal, which will save your life countless times. Shaman heals dont heal enough? Heal and throw down a slowing totem and run. Shaman>all. I've decided to go with troll, btw. :-)

[fer]

I hope they can make an autocast for the troll berserk in UI, otherwise @ moment you are on 20% you dont think about using it. Or maybe you are on 21% etc. I found it very hard to use.

[VIB]

Beserking sounds pretty good for healers at high levels, but warstomp also does.. health regen is uselss for a healer, +5%hp is not =)


When hero classes come in and my orc shaman gets bloodlust, all you tauren shamans will be green with envy.just wait till I get crow form >)

[Renton]

/agree /agree /agree with the autocast :-)

[Hogart]

As the stun is not even instant, if i stand in melee range with my enemy and click on it, can they evade? I mean does it hit them if they jump and is in the air while i stomp? How big is the range? etc etc.. I have a REALLY tough time choosing between Troll or Tauren Shaman... blah! Thanks!

[Renton]

Yes, I have had it evaded before, but I don't think jumping in the air does anything at all, and it's impossible to see the stomp coming so noone would be skilled enough to jump even if it mattered. I picked Troll because I hope that their 20% combat regen will pay up some day, I almost never use the troll special skill. Try one of each and decide :-)

-Renton.. I really gotta make this part of my sig.

[Hogart]

In group pvp, what race would be best for shaman then? 20% Regen vs. 5% more hp, stomp vs. "troll berserk". Nature resist/+15herbalism vs. More in throwing skill/5%More dmg vs. animals... What is really most efficient? Tauren seem so good when compared with the Troll. But how good is the 10% regen (works as 20% with combat endurance?) compared to it all, in big raids, pve, 5on5 group pvp etc.. I really want this cleared once and for all! :D

[Renton]

I personally think I should have went Tauren. A: +15 herbalism (little did I know that I would be dropping tailoring and enchanting for herbalism+alchemism). B. I used to use war stomp alot, I rarely use Troll berserk. C. I'm really not sure how much the 10 or 20% is hp regen wise. I won't be upgrading to 20 till lvl 35 with my talent sheet. I HOPE that Troll 20% regen will win over the 5% in the end. Someone please crunch numbers on this. P.S.> I like troll starting zone better than Tauren anyways.



-Renton

[Zinjinn]

Actually, from what I heard, Troll Regeneration and Combat Endurance do not stack (at least not additively).

[undie]

thats just silly, why wouldn't that stack Oo ?..

anyho, you can make berzerking go off automatically i bet, don't ask me how though :p

[Hogart]

What is additively ? =)

Btw some calculations etc on this would be awesome.

[Chemdog]

I've been finding that I am getting owned in pvp right now. Granted, I'm only lvl 32, but 1 v 1 against enemies of the same level (mostly rogues, druids, hunters, paladins) I get spanked. Warrior and mages I'm pretty close to. I think a warlock would own me as well. I just get bound or slowed and they sick their pet or heal themselves and continue the onslaught.

[Renton]

Then you dont know how to play shammy :-(

[Hogart]

hmm, especially rogues, warriors, and hunters you should really own.. I almost took down a lvl 31 hunter when i was lvl 25, both max hp/mana. He must have really sucked, but thats the case. Dont think your average enemy is that much better, we are playing the same game :D