Suggestion Wanted - Looting Method for Early Instances

[Ratama]

I know a lot of people's first reaction to this question is going to be, "don't group with idiots", but I really find that I do meet some really good people doing pick-up groups. On to the problem:

I have been using Group Loot with an Uncommon threshold for rolling, and then discussing with the group and asking people not to roll on stuff they are not going to use. Without fail, people cooperate through most of the dungeon then screw up the boss loot.

Yesterday in WC and Shadowfang keep, 2 different groups, 2 different cloth casters rolled and won on a piece of leather armor, and a really good 1hand sword (Butcher's Slicer).

Do any of the other looting systems work well for low instances? Need before greed? I don't know if this really works, as the ability to use a weapon does not really always mean that someone should use? But does this usually work better for people that have used it?

How about Master Looting? Does anyone know how Bind on Pick-up items are handled with this? Bind on pick-up items have been the issue; in both cases the casters have apologized for looting items they can't even use. But is is possible to do Master Looting, but only with a Threshold? Handing out common loot would be a total pain in the ass.

[Stabface]

well, first off

don't group with idiots ;)

and if you do, make sure you or your friend or somebody is the group leader, so you can set master loot. most idiots wont know/notice the difference, and then you can make sure the loot is distributed fairly.

[Ralrra]

My experience of Master Looter is it doesn't work well for bind on aquire items. If you opena corpse with a BoA and can't use it, nobody else can loot it either I don't think, even after you've closed the corpse.

I don't like need before greed either, on my hunter I haven't traied the 1-handed weapon skills, but that's mainly because I haven't found any that'll be anywhere near as good as my polearm. That doesn't mean I don't want a chace to loot 1-handed weapons. I'd be more than happy to switch over to dual-wield if I could loot some decent weapons.

[Ratama]

I don't like need before greed either, on my hunter I haven't traied the 1-handed weapon skills, but that's mainly because I haven't found any that'll be anywhere near as good as my polearm. That doesn't mean I don't want a chace to loot 1-handed weapons. I'd be more than happy to switch over to dual-wield if I could loot some decent weapons.

No personal insult intended, but that is exactly the kind of problem I have with the looting systems. Hunters shouldn't be able to roll on a 1hander before a Warrior or Rogue that needs it. 2handers are just better than dual wield, and a Hunter looting a weapon because they think it would be fun to try dual-wield makes me :( That's almost worse than the Mage who just didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

[IN-QQQQ]

Simplest solution is to discuss Loot Rules BEFORE you even start the instance.

State how you think the Loot should be split.
State who gets to roll on what.

Make sure everyone is agreeable to the rules, if they choose not to agree with it, then you are left with two choices.

1- Find another person
2- Keep the person and go with the risk knowing that they might roll for something they can't use.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I join someone else's group, I'll abide by their rules.
If I form my own group. I always state my rules for loot. If they choose not to accept them, I just look for someone else.

[IN-QQQQ]

I don't like need before greed either, on my hunter I haven't traied the 1-handed weapon skills, but that's mainly because I haven't found any that'll be anywhere near as good as my polearm. That doesn't mean I don't want a chace to loot 1-handed weapons. I'd be more than happy to switch over to dual-wield if I could loot some decent weapons.
If there is a warrior there that can use it RIGHT NOW, I think he should get it because it would be an immeadite upgrade for him and would help the group in the instance right away. If you roll on it and your not even going to use it right then while there is a warrior can, now that's just plain greed.

Don't get me wrong, if it is something that that everyone can use as a secnondary weapon, then it should be fair game for everyone who can use it to roll for it. But if it is a better upgrade from someone's primary then those people should roll/get it.

[eggrollking]

It's all fair game when you choose to group with random people.

[Trend]

Look at it this way .... it's nice to figure out who is an idiot and who isn't while you're still at a low level. Those items won't last you for more than a couple days anyway. If you get lucky you will hook on with some people who aren't idiots and you'll be all set for your higher level experience.

[Ralrra]

No personal insult intended, but that is exactly the kind of problem I have with the looting systems. Hunters shouldn't be able to roll on a 1hander before a Warrior or Rogue that needs it. 2handers are just better than dual wield, and a Hunter looting a weapon because they think it would be fun to try dual-wield makes me :( That's almost worse than the Mage who just didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

I always ask whether it'll be an immediate upgrade for someone before I roll. If a warrior/rogue can use it then and there I'd gladly pass (and I have on many occasions.) I don't want to try out dual wield "because I think it would be fun." I've grouped with several hunters who are very effective in melee using dual-wield. The reason I use 2-hand is because of the equipment I've found. With the durability costs, I don't see the point in shelling out 10 silver at my level until I have an actual reason to.

I wouldn't mind different looting rules at all so long as they were consistent. You say rogues/warriors need 1-handed weapons more than hunters. Do hunters need 2-handed more than warriors/paladins/shamans/whatever? Should rogues/warriors never be able to roll on bows/guns, even though they can use them, and sometimes use them quite effectively?

[Stabface]

My experience of Master Looter is it doesn't work well for bind on aquire items. If you opena corpse with a BoA and can't use it, nobody else can loot it either I don't think, even after you've closed the corpse.

You click on the item, and the list of players in your party appear. In a raid, it probably shows everybody in the raid, but if you need to use master loot in a raid, you probably will fail, anyways.

So you just click it, then click yourself/somebody else, and they instantly get it.

[Ratama]

I wouldn't mind different looting rules at all so long as they were consistent. You say rogues/warriors need 1-handed weapons more than hunters. Do hunters need 2-handed more than warriors/paladins/shamans/whatever? Should rogues/warriors never be able to roll on bows/guns, even though they can use them, and sometimes use them quite effectively?

No, I'll definitely say that Hunters should have first crack at any and all ranged weapons. As for 2handers, I would say Warriors/Paladins first on those as well. That's how they do their damage; that's the only way they do their damage.

The question of need is very simple in my opinion: Does the item work with your primary attack method? Yes/No and you have your answer if you should be in on the first roll if everything was up to me (but I realize it's not).

[Ratama]

Thanks Stabface,

It looks like that is what I want then. Let people roll if they want, but at least that way the group leader can control who gets to roll and make people use /random if they have to.

To the people who said you get what you get when you do Random groups. I realize that, but you get some good with it too. I'm just trying to find ways to minimize the bad.

[Ralrra]

No, I'll definitely say that Hunters should have first crack at any and all ranged weapons. As for 2handers, I would say Warriors/Paladins first on those as well. That's how they do their damage; that's the only way they do their damage.

The question of need is very simple in my opinion: Does the item work with your primary attack method? Yes/No and you have your answer if you should be in on the first roll if everything was up to me (but I realize it's not).

The major flaw with that is that warriors/pallys/shaman all use both 1-hand and 2-handed weapons for damage, depending on what roll they're filling, a main tank warrior will likely be using sword/board, but that doesn't mean he never uses 2-handed weapons. What would his primary attack method be considered? The only class that could have an arguement over needing one type more than the other is a rogue, since they can't wield 2-handers.