(Destruction) Warlock, Several Build Questions

[Inconsiderable]

Hello.

Right now my Warlock (52) is using some Destruction/Affliction Build for leveling. I went for Fel Concentration first, then Intensity. It works pretty fine for leveling. I can leech(-tank) mobs and when instances started to require AE, I was rdy.
One thing is sure: My build is going to have min 31 Destruction for Conflagrate. But after my latest experiences in PvP, i am not sure what else I am going to pick. I am thinking about Master Summoner. Fighting without a pet weakens warlocks alot and they disappear whenever you ride around too fast, fly, jump down cliffs, etc. Whenever I ride into some alliance guy, I cant just jump down and start fighting when he is doing the same. With Master Summoner I can summon my pet in 0.5 seconds every 15 minutes. Or sacrifice my VW and resummon. But its 17 points into Demonology and beside +15% Sta and +20% Healthstone there is nothing I need or want. And I am going to sacrifice Amplified Curse (and max 3/5 Impr Corruption).

Well.. what do you think about it. Is it worth to sacrifice instant corruption and amplified CoA to get the 0.5 s pet?

The next thing is.. I saw some sexy Video of a fire mage PvPing. He went 1v2 and 1v3 and did pretty good. Even with newbish enemies, this isnt easy at all. His tactic was good use of frostnova/blink/polymorph and scorch/fireblast spam. Scorch and Searing Pain are nearly the same.
I think adapting this tactic could work good. Id skill amplified curse, demonic embrace and rest all destruction including Improved Searing Pain (+10% Crit) and Inferno (+10% dmg).
I know: warlock is no mage and shouldnt try to be one. But this would help the no-dot damage output alot. Pet Damage, Corruption, Amplified CoA / Curse of Elements, Immolate, Conflagrate, Shadowburn and lots of Searing Pain would give some high dps together with fear and sacrifice / spellock / charm. I could even throw in Eye of Flame (i.e.) until I get the highend set.

Well.. opinions?

[hellion]

you don't have blink, you don't have root, you don't have polymorph (seduce is okay i guess....)

fearing away people you are not targeting might work...

why not just roll a mage?

[Inconsiderable]

Because I like my Warlock. Why just I roll a mage, just because I like to try his fire-stuff?

[hellion]

they are two completely different classes...

if you wanna try to emulate a mage with a warlock then i don't see the point. it's like emulating a priest with a shaman. no dice.

[Inconsiderable]

Somehow I knew that those replies will come........ thats why I wrote that I am NOT going to play mage with my warlock.

[KungFoo]

Hellion is just bitter because he never figured out how to play a warlock successfully.

Now, on to your questions:


Well.. what do you think about it. Is it worth to sacrifice instant corruption and amplified CoA to get the 0.5 s pet?

Amplified CoA? Sure, that would be worth it, if it's all you had to do.

Instant corruption? Absolutely not.

The only way you're going to be able to win those 1v3s that you talk about is by staying mobile. You simply cannot afford to sit there for a half-second (let alone 2 seconds) per corruption, and you also can't afford to lose 1800 mana-efficient damage by eschewing the skill entirely. Pets are a vitally important part of the warlock class, but their importance stems more from their ability to distract the enemy, or keep the warlock alive longer, or draw out the fight--essentially, to give you a favorable terrain advantage. Blowing a big chunk of mana just so you can have your pet instantly appear AT THE START OF THE FIGHT* is wasteful; just learn to wait for your pet if it's about to be unsummoned (tip: pets generally move at mount speed (assuming you're mounted); however, if you or they are engaged in combat while mounted, the pet speed drops down to normal running speed. Dismount and then resummon your steed after leaving combat).

Another problem with master summoner...


One thing is sure: My build is going to have min 31 Destruction for Conflagrate. But after my latest experiences in PvP, i am not sure what else I am going to pick. ... Id skill amplified curse, demonic embrace and rest all destruction including Improved Searing Pain (+10% Crit) and Inferno (+10% dmg).

It is not feasible to have a 31 point destruction build with improved searing pain and inferno. Oh, it's technically possible, but you lose out on destructive reach, ruin, and shadowburn, which is just silly. On the other hand, once you add those four talent points in, it is no longer possible to max master summoner, as you have only 16 talent points remaining (this without instant corruption or intensity). Sure, you could skip inferno entirely, but since you'll still have limited damage options apart from fire nukes, you'd really want to go amplify curse now.


The next thing is.. I saw some sexy Video of a fire mage PvPing. He went 1v2 and 1v3 and did pretty good. Even with newbish enemies, this isnt easy at all. His tactic was good use of frostnova/blink/polymorph and scorch/fireblast spam.

As you mentioned, warlocks are not mages, and (generally) shouldn't try to be them. This doesn't mean, though, that warlocks can't go into 1v3s expecting to win; it doesn't even mean that they can't go into 1v3s expecting to win with almost the same tactics!

The important thing to note from your description of the mage video is his use of crowd-controlling abilities and positioning to dictate the pace of the battle, and fast-casting nukes to keep a steady damage stream while not interrupting his use of the former. Destruction warlocks can follow a pretty similar strategy using lulls/fears for crowd control and immolates/searing pains/shadowburns for direct damage. Shadowburn is probably the single most important spell for a pvp warlock, as it provides good damage that can be cast while moving, or comboed after any non-instant spell (just bear in mind that the recast is almost twice as long (15s) as the mage counterpart fireblast (8s)). You'll also want to keep in mind such things as diminishing returns (if you're going to need to keep two people CC'd, rotate between fear and lull so you don't have to worry about their durations being cut in half) and heal timing (always use a potion or healthstone before death coil in a large fight, to give the timers a chance to recharge as early as possible; in really lopsided fights avoid health potions in favor of mana, and just be prepared to create more healthstones).

Oh, and don't forget to bring a whole heck of a lot of soulstones.

A LOT.


...Oh, and in case you're interested, here are a couple of destruction-focused templates I've used to great effect in one-against-many situations:


AFFLICTION TALENTS (11 points)

- Improved Corruption - 5/5 points
Reduces the casting time of your Corruption spell by 2 seconds.

- Suppression - 3/5 points
Reduces the chance for enemies to resist your Affliction spells by 6%.

- Improved Life Tap - 2/2 points
Increases the amount of Mana awarded by your Life Tap spell by 20%.

- Amplify Curse - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your next Curse of Weakness or Curse of Agony by 50%, or your next Curse of Exhaustion by 20%.


DEMONOLOGY TALENTS (3 points)

- Demonic Embrace - 3/5 points
Increases your total Stamina by 9%, but reduces your total Spirit by 3%.


DESTRUCTION TALENTS (37 points)

- Cataclysm - 5/5 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Destruction spells by 5%.

- Bane - 5/5 points
Reduces the casting time of your Shadow Bolt and Immolate spells by 0.5 seconds.

- Shadowburn - 1/1 point
Instantly blasts the target with 87 to 99 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard.

- Devastation - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Destruction spells by 5%.

- Destructive Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Destruction spells by 20%.

- Improved Searing Pain - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Searing Pain spell by 10%.

- Intensity - 2/2 points
Gives you a 70% chance to resist interruptiong caused by damage while channeling the Rain of Fire or Hellfire spell.

- Ruin - 1/1 point
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Destruction spells by 100%.

- Improved Immolate - 5/5 points
Increases the initial damage of your Immolate spell by 25%.

- Inferno - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your Fire spells by 10%.

- Conflagrate - 1/1 point
Ignite a target that is already afflicted by Immolate, dealing 197 to 251 damage and consuming the Immolate spell.

^ Exceptional damage output, limited survivability.


AFFLICTION TALENTS (7 points)

- Improved Corruption - 5/5 points
Reduces the casting time of your Corruption spell by 2 seconds.

- Improved Life Tap - 2/2 points
Increases the amount of Mana awarded by your Life Tap spell by 20%.


DEMONOLOGY TALENTS (7 points)

- Demonic Embrace - 5/5 points
Increases your total Stamina by 15%, but reduces your total Spirit by 5%.

- Improved Healthstone - 2/2 points
Increases the amount of Health restored by your Healthstone by 20%.


DESTRUCTION TALENTS (37 points)

- Cataclysm - 5/5 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Destruction spells by 5%.

- Bane - 5/5 points
Reduces the casting time of your Shadow Bolt and Immolate spells by 0.5 seconds.

- Shadowburn - 1/1 point
Instantly blasts the target with 87 to 99 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard.

- Devastation - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Destruction spells by 5%.

- Improved Searing Pain - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Searing Pain spell by 10%.

- Destructive Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Destruction spells by 20%.

- Intensity - 2/2 points
Gives you a 70% chance to resist interruptiong caused by damage while channeling the Rain of Fire or Hellfire spell.

- Ruin - 1/1 point
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Destruction spells by 100%.

- Improved Immolate - 5/5 points
Increases the initial damage of your Immolate spell by 25%.

- Inferno - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your Fire spells by 10%.

- Conflagrate - 1/1 point
Ignite a target that is already afflicted by Immolate, dealing 197 to 251 damage and consuming the Immolate spell.

^ No amplify curse, but you'll live longer.

Both are perfectly solid magelock templates that seem to fit the playstyle you're looking for.

Good luck.


* Master Summoner is far more useful for summoning a second pet in the middle of a fight that you started with one. Consider especially starting with a succubus and then swapping to instant VW+sac after an undead rogue WotF's your lull, or starting with VW and then doing an insta-succ when your shield gets low.[/b]

[Inconsiderable]

Ahh thanks, that was the kind of answer i was looking for. My fire-mage-lock build would have been the 11/3/37 you posted. For Instant Pet I would have taken 3 Affliction, 17 Demonology and 31 Destruction without Searing Pain / Inferno.

Also I am not focused on 1v3, I just felt like I should mention what that mage accomplished by spamming scorch all over the place, but your reply showed me that a "searing pain build" will work. Right now I am doing fine 1v2 as long as they have no fear counter. Rogue with fear counter completely screws me and duel vs shaman feels like a bad joke. Vs skilled shamans I win the first 4-5 duels until they know what a warlock can do, then they screw me again and again. Mainly because of my missing "fast" damage output (no conflagrate, 20 affliction). Luckily I never have to face Blacksmith-Shamans as Horde Warlock.
When I get my all DoTs on them, they are feared... I am kinda lost right now. With Conflagrate and hard hitting Sorchs, I would do some serious dmg beside life leech and hope for nightfall.
Outside of duels its pretty easy to go 1v2 as long as I am the attacker.

Anyway, big THANKS

[hellion]

Yeah, enjoy guy.

[hellion]

btw amplify curse is a pos.

[Tarukito]

Amplify curse is no way a POS.

Amplified CoE makes any epic mounted player cheese to kill.

Amplify your CoA and you add 525 Damage, Super worth it PvE/PVP Increased DPS who doesnt want that?

[hellion]

it's worth it if you spend FIVE (5) fucking talent points for a 12 second curse snare that overrides any other curse ...

so you better kill them in 12 seconds.

and amplifying a curse of agony is nice. just hope it doesn't get knocked off the debuff list.

warlocks are broken as a debuffer class guys. they can get along a little bit as shitty mages but WoW as a game needs heavy renovation in order for debuffs to be effective.

[Coldfire]

Hellion is just bitter because he never figured out how to play a warlock successfully.Quoted for agreement.

[KungFoo]

Well, the idea is that in small-scale pvp, and indeed in almost any scale pvp, you aren't likely to maximize the debuff list on a single target, so amp. CoA is fine. And yeah, blowing a 3min recast on a 12s spell is pretty poor... I don't really like CoE unless you're going to put the points into the improved version, for that reason.

6 points for an extra 517.5 damage over 30s (aka 17.25 dps) every 3 minutes is an ok/marginal tradeoff for a magelock build (you're sacrificing an extra 240 hp from healthstone, +6% sta / -2% spi, and 84 mana per lifetap to get it), but of course it's a no-brainer if you're going to have 10 or more points in affliction anyway.

I dunno, there's a reason that I dropped it from my destruction build.

[Inconsiderable]

Two more Questions...

1) Why did my Immolate (lvl-54 Warlock) crit a Tar Lord (lvl-54 Ungoro) for 816 Damage? I just cant figure out why.

2) +Fire Dmg Equip didnt increase my fire dmg at all and even worse, Arcane Elixir didnt affect Hellfire. Any ways to boost fire dmg as warlock?

[Coldfire]

1) Why did my Immolate (lvl-54 Warlock) crit a Tar Lord (lvl-54 Ungoro) for 816 Damage? I just cant figure out why.Tar is very flammable.

[hellion]

Hellion is just bitter because he never figured out how to play a warlock successfully.Quoted for agreement.

you're probably right because to this day i wish i had rolled a mage or priest instead and would have never rolled the other alts i have. i love the idea of what a warlock is, but blizzard fucked them in the ass.

if blizzard gets their shit together and fixes their game, then i may consider going back to the warlock.

may.

[Coldfire]

you're probably right because to this day i wish i had rolled a mage or priest instead and would have never rolled the other alts i have. i love the idea of what a warlock is, but blizzard fucked them in the ass.

if blizzard gets their shit together and fixes their game, then i may consider going back to the warlock.

may.Normally I have too much respect for this board and its denizens to jump into any kind of flaming, but:
It really sounds to me that you're talking out your ass, and that you just don't know how to play the class effectively. I think, too, that your apparent preference for Mages and, to a lesser extent, Priests, backs this up, as both are easy classes to play. I have been doing very well in both PvE and PvP on my Warlock, and I have yet to find how they have been "fucked in the ass".

And it's really not my place, since I'm not even a Nurfed member, but you just need to stop. If all you're going to do is bitch and cry about the class, then you shouldn't even be posting in this thread.

[Inconsiderable]

All classed can do well in PvP, even gimped warrior, useless druids and unfinished warlocks. Still Hellion is right; the class needs some changes or at least bugfixes.

Personally I would like to see a decent defensive ability. WOTF is just bs vs warlocks, I dont duel UD Rogues because I dont want to waste Soulshards for a 20 second slaughter of my char.

[hellion]

you're probably right because to this day i wish i had rolled a mage or priest instead and would have never rolled the other alts i have. i love the idea of what a warlock is, but blizzard fucked them in the ass.

if blizzard gets their shit together and fixes their game, then i may consider going back to the warlock.

may.Normally I have too much respect for this board and its denizens to jump into any kind of flaming, but:
It really sounds to me that you're talking out your ass, and that you just don't know how to play the class effectively. I think, too, that your apparent preference for Mages and, to a lesser extent, Priests, backs this up, as both are easy classes to play. I have been doing very well in both PvE and PvP on my Warlock, and I have yet to find how they have been "fucked in the ass".

And it's really not my place, since I'm not even a Nurfed member, but you just need to stop. If all you're going to do is bitch and cry about the class, then you shouldn't even be posting in this thread.

get to raids and see what i'm talking about. hell , even 5 man groups.

enjoy being a wannabe mage with your curse of shadow and shadowbolt because "oops" warriors rend just took away your curse of agony. "oops" silly rogues rupture knocked off your corruption..

it is a flaw in the game and i would appreciate it if you didn't flame me when you insist on basking inside your bubble of oblivion.

[hellion]

All classed can do well in PvP, even gimped warrior, useless druids and unfinished warlocks. Still Hellion is right; the class needs some changes or at least bugfixes.

Personally I would like to see a decent defensive ability. WOTF is just bs vs warlocks, I dont duel UD Rogues because I dont want to waste Soulshards for a 20 second slaughter of my char.

exactly. unfinished. druid get along with heals even though their defining class abilities are never used. warlocks get along with dds even though their main role as a debuffer is not needed or effective as it should be. everyone can solo well and warlocks, with a bit of heavy usage of health stones and void walkers can solo many many quests. however, when blizzard says that the role of a class is debuffer and you can only use ONE debuff at a time and they don't stick on mobs , something is wrong.

[Andvarion]

I personally take comfort in the fact that warlocks will likely end up being one of the most powerful classes at some points. Did you guys not play EQ? Classes did a few 180's over the course of the years. (i.e. Necros started out extremely powerful, got nurfed down the drain, then powered back up again)

I know this is Blizzard and not Sony, but this seems like the logical progression of any MMO. It's like the people who complain expect the game to be 100% final at release, and don't realize the game is always going to be changing.

[Coldfire]

get to raids and see what i'm talking about. hell , even 5 man groups.

enjoy being a wannabe mage with your curse of shadow and shadowbolt because "oops" warriors rend just took away your curse of agony. "oops" silly rogues rupture knocked off your corruption..

it is a flaw in the game and i would appreciate it if you didn't flame me when you insist on basking inside your bubble of oblivion.I can count on one hand the number of times I have used Shadowbolt in PvP. I've been in fights with as many as 10 people on each side, and even then it's rare for me. The cast time is simply too prohibitive for realistic use when you've got anything hitting you. If you're trying to pull off a 2.5 second cast nuke while you're getting hit by a melee class, that's not a mechanic flaw, it's a poor choice on your part.
I'm also well aware of the apparent issues with debuff limits, and though I haven't experienced them myself, I hardly think from what I've heard that it can be classified as "fucking Warlocks in the ass".
While we're talking about what we appreciate, I'm sure all of us would appreciate it if you ceased your incessant, exaggerated pissing and moaning about Warlocks. Aside from the fact that no one is forcing you to play one, this is not the World of WarCraft General Discussion forum. That can be found here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general

[Andvarion]

Yep, $5 says the debuff limits change in a future patch anyway. Happened in EQ too. It's all so predictable. Just sit back and enjoy (or don't enjoy) the ride in the mean time.

All that being said, someone do that warlock writeup!

[Inconsiderable]

Didnt Blizzard say they will not change it? I remember some blue posting i think.

[Ralrra]

They've said they aren't going to change it, and then posted that it would be changed like a week later.

[hellion]

They've said they aren't going to change it, and then posted that it would be changed like a week later.just like they said that there was no way in hell warlocks would ever get shards in pvp then said they would.

btw i think coldfire has a problem with the term " assfucking.'

perhaps there is a painful experience in his past that he wants to share.

[hellion]

Yep, $5 says the debuff limits change in a future patch anyway. Happened in EQ too. It's all so predictable. Just sit back and enjoy (or don't enjoy) the ride in the mean time.

All that being said, someone do that warlock writeup!

i agree with you that when a majority of people take a stand things will be done. i still have my warlock in stasis . like hell i'm going to delete him. if they do change many of the things i have mentioned, of course i would consider picking him up again.

[Inconsiderable]

Another Question... where in Blackrock drops the inferal thingy?

[KungFoo]

drops from scarshield warlocks in lbrs

[Coldfire]

Didnt Blizzard say they will not change it? I remember some blue posting i think.I'm pretty sure I remember them saying that they will change it.

[Inconsiderable]

I'm pretty sure I remember them saying that they will change it.

Like that guy said:


They've said they aren't going to change it, and then posted that it would be changed like a week later.

[Andvarion]

Yep, see. That's how it goes. It doesn't matter what they say. They can and will change their minds on some things, everybody should count on that. Even Blizzard can't know what decisions they will make in the future as people's play styles will dictate how new content is added to the game. New content means new rules in many cases, which means new spells/skills or new ways for old ones to work.

Look how different the game is from beta already. Imagine how different it will be in 2 years compared to now. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a couple years down the line, they add an expansion that allows you to become a traitor and join the opposing faction through some major quest or something.

That's not something I specifically want or don't want, I was just making up an example of major ways games like these can change. Nothing's final. Nothing.