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Emin
02-02-2005, 04:18 PM
I just read the interview that Indal participated in and i must say, im rather dissapointed.

I do like the idea of a restoration specced paladin who stays in the back and heals with 2 invurns. However, to compare purge to dispell is like comparing English to Math. They are not the same thing, one is used to criple an opponent the other is used to help an ally.

It is my belief that shaman are way overpowered simply because of frostshock and purge. Let me explain. Purge is an insta cast spell, with no cool down, and takes almost no mana to use, it removes 2 bufs of any enemy.. In a good group vs group pvp, your oponents will, more than likely, be buffed with 54 to stam, and possibly with 31 to intel. Not to mention other buffs they might pick up from potions, Gift of Wild and what not.

When i engage in pvp, i simply run around the first 3-5 seconds and purge every one i can, (that is my primary goal) 1 drop earthbind(slow the enmy down is my secondary goal), and interupt the first caster i see with earthshock (some what importaint, but the most importaint this is every one gets purged). 5 seconds into the fight, i should have my strength totem droped, searing totem droped and depending on my party grace , windfury or grounding totem droped. i then retreat to the back row, make sure every one is healed up. 10-20 seconds into the fight i move up into the front rows and search for any softie who ether got feared or wandered to the front. Flurry and Windfury own :)

Lets do the math. if it was 5 vs 5 , i purged 5 targets, that means 540 hp, and 620 mana from every target. (i do realize not all the clases are gonna have mana, and it might be difficult to make it to the back row to purge some of the casters, but being a shaman and having the ability to wear mail and drop earthbind totems, its a very reasonable goal) Purge also work's on a priest's and Mage's shield, adding salt to an already bleeding wound.

Also i saw how some of Nurfed's shamys are specced, and i must say, i tried the 21 points in restoration, rest in enhancement. the 21 points in restoration rest in elemental builds. and i do not like them any where near as much as my new build. I have 31 points in Restoration, and 20 points in enhancement. To be honest, it slightly reduced my efficiency in the 1 vs 1 department. I liked having 22% bonus to windfury's AR and i liked having the 4 seconds reduced cool down on my grounding totem, But having 8% bonus to healing spells, and my mana Tide totem, wich gives me and all my party members 960 mana in 12 seconds (every 5 minutes) is way more helpfull than the 22% bonus windfury AR or the 4 sec cool down on my grounding totem.

I apoligize for any spelling errors or poor wording in my paragraphs, english is my second language.

I always read the forums during beta, i didnt have a chance to play, and i always admired Nurfed for their ability to ignore critisizm. But i think your aura of indiference to all the trolls and kids is what earned my respect. I wanted to play on archimond and hoped to maybe have the chance to play with some of u guys, but when the game came out, i couldnt wait on all server problems archimond had :( i play on Warsong , my char name is Eminas.

Keep it real.
Em

SandDemon
02-02-2005, 05:55 PM
That's one more than me that agree on why we read this forum. More power to ya for piping up about his interview.

Sadly, I chose an alliance server(ner'zhul) when Archimonde was down...and am now looking at my level 55 rogue wondering why I picked Alliance.

Is Warsong crazy busy like Ner'zhul/Archimonde? I just might move over and bug ya...

Firecrak
02-02-2005, 10:48 PM
Unfortunatly, purge doesn't remove Power Word Shield. Neither is flurry/2hder a necessity, I do perfectly well with ele/rest. Mana Tide, while nice, isn't a necessity either. Its all about play style. Shams...are not overpowered, just balanced.

Talanos
02-02-2005, 11:26 PM
Ummm....Purge most certainly does remove Power Word Shield...[/quote]

rjah
02-03-2005, 01:36 AM
You do realize that Purge is 2 spells removed, and Dispel Magic is 1 spell removed, correct?

Purge: Only affects opponents. Removes 2 friendly buffs.

Dispel Magic: Affects allies OR opponents. Removes 1 harmful buff from an ally, or 1 friendly buff from an opponent.

Both are instant cast.

Both are spammable.

One can help you remove DoTs from your party members, AND dispel PW: Fort/Arcane Int.

The other only dispells the opponents buffs.

In the end, Dispel > Purge.

Is purge more amusing to use at times? Sure.

l-c
02-03-2005, 03:15 AM
Dispel > Purge by tons....

"Dispels magic on the target, removing 2 harmful spells from a friend or 2 beneficial spells from an enemy."

2 friendly or enemy, best spell ever.

Shamans are not overpowered at ALL

Nox
02-03-2005, 11:32 AM
I hate to seem so harsh, but - by and large alliance that I fight in pvp just do not play very well or try very hard. There are definite exceptions and trust me you can -feel- it when it happens. A good druid will beat me, a bad one won't even touch me. I've fought -one- good alliance druid so far.

Dueling horde and fighting alliance is like two different worlds. I stand a chance of losing and learnnig something aganist most horde. Most alliance just seem to lack focus and determination. Maybe this is just a bad sample but saying a horde-only class is overpowered ventures too far into the bias between the types of players who choose to play alliance and horde.

For whatever reason, horde seems to attract powergaming pvp oriented people. There are of course exceptions, but as a rule - when there were choices the guilds like Afterlife, FOH, Conquest ALL chose alliance for the levelling speed advantage and other topical issues.

As a horde, having dueled shamans I can assure you they have plenty of weaknessse, which I will not discuss here. The trick is to not fall for their traps, and to not get suckered into their advantage - just like anyone.

Nub
02-03-2005, 03:11 PM
Nox,

You said Alliance got a leveling speed advantage?, is that tru and in what way?

Sorry, i really don't know, since i never took the time to paly alliance.

demon-surge
02-03-2005, 04:29 PM
I think overall, horde is a cooler faction.

We went alliance because we felt that the majority of organized and coordinated guilds were going horde, that alliance was really underpowered, and that most PvP guilds would all jump the horde bandwagon.

I'll admit that I dont usually give it my all in pvp, I just simply dont care anymore. You kill them, they're back from the graveyard shortly after, same thing vice versa, who cares? Its not like anything is really showing off skills or abilities.

I find everytime I personally run into a group of people I'll try to one vs one but usually get ganked 8 vs 1 with no chance to do anything. Happens a lot vice versa as well.

I find usually when fighting horde they suck, I dont feel like they are even trying or even caring. Whats the point, im in that same shitty mindset. Same old thing, you go to an instance, you get ganked by 30 horde standing outside it camping for hours, why organize people and go kill them, they'll just zone in, or get back from the graveyard within 3 minutes.

If you want to say the class is overpowered or not, play the class itself. Paladins are not overpowered, shamans are not overpowered, every class has thier ups and thier downs, thier weaknesses and strengths. You fight people of different skill levels, and its not a fair representation of the class.

Hell, if you asked me I would say shamans > paladins easily for large scale pvp, doesnt mean I know shit about shamans.

Firecrak
02-03-2005, 05:12 PM
Ummm....Purge most certainly does remove Power Word Shield...

What drugs are you smoking? Power Word Shield, the actual tooltip, specificly states "BLOCKS ALL SPELLS AND PHYSICAL DAMAGE"....Mana shield, for a mage, only blocks physical attacks, and thus can be dispelled. Blessing of Protection is a seal, and thus only stops physical attacks, and can be dispelled. Divine Protection is a 12 second carbon copy of PW:S, and thus can't be dispelled...

Talanos
02-03-2005, 05:46 PM
Haha that's funny...please go test this out now Firecrak and we will see who is smoking what :D

Emin
02-03-2005, 06:13 PM
Unfortunatly, purge doesn't remove Power Word Shield. Neither is flurry/2hder a necessity, I do perfectly well with ele/rest. Mana Tide, while nice, isn't a necessity either. Its all about play style. Shams...are not overpowered, just balanced.


Elem/rest is not a bad build, but u left out some of the most importaint things in my build. Having a mana tide totem is cruicial in tight spots, it might be uncessary when zerging an instance with 25 people but when your out of mana and every one else is runing low, it can make a big difference. Second of all, in ur elem spec u go out of mana your shit out of luck. I like having 5% (additional)bonus chance to crit, not to mention flurry. thus i can melee significantly better than u. Improved lighting shield doesnt hurt ether. But i love my imporved ghostwolf even more than improved lighting shield. While it takes u 3 seconds to morph into Ghost wolf. I can DoT you with fire, drop earthbind Ghostwolf in one second, run to the side and bandage. one sec ghostwolf with earthbind is alot more usefull than you might think. Not only because it lets me practicaly bandage when ever i want, as long as i dont have a DoT on me, but it lets me run the show, i can get close if i want, i can get some room(or alota room) between me and my oponents if i want.

Im dissapointed with my self that i did not do some research as far as dispell goes. Every time i went head to head with a paladin they never dispelled any of my buffs, not even lighting shield. How sad, judging by the fact that i had ALOT of confortations. My apologies for being ignorant.

And one more thing, any one who says shams are balanced are in denial. Indeed, it is nice to be able to run the show in any one vs one confortation, have a counter for practicaly anything, and if all else fails, get out alive.

Emin

Emin
02-03-2005, 06:25 PM
Nox,

You said Alliance got a leveling speed advantage?, is that tru and in what way?

Sorry, i really don't know, since i never took the time to paly alliance.

hijack attempt, gg :)

[alliance got a lvling advantage because of their quests and zones, not to mention there is supposedly a lot more alliance on every server (lol) so, if u roll alliance u can pwr lvl through even the contested zones, while if your horde, you have to find spots that arent infested with alliance. Ex: After trying to do quests in stromgarde for the 3rd day in a row, I decided to set my alarm clock to 5am, and finish the shit hole once and for all. Not so much because i was dying to get a quest reward or quest exiprience but because i died there 25+ times to multiple alliance parties. ]

Emin

Tlear
02-03-2005, 08:28 PM
Paladin cant dispell stuff on the enemy. Paladin gets cleanse, which removes one negative magic, poison and desease effect from friendly target. Paladin CANT dispell anything on the horde. Only classes that have offensive dispell: Priest, Shaman, Warlock using felhunter. Only classes that have defensive dispell are Paladin, Priest, Warlock using felhunter. Pretty straight forward balance there.

SYNthZ
02-04-2005, 03:13 PM
First off, Purge DOES take away Shield, been that way since I can remember.

Not sure about this tho...as a 'Lock, does FelHunter affect buffs on opponents such as WindFury?

demon-surge
02-05-2005, 03:39 AM
Just for the record, from an alliance perspective.

Most people feel they cant go anywhere without being jumped by horde, zerg'd, etc.

STV feels absolutely horde controlled, and most people do quests in the middle of the night solo, or in the day in parties of 5 so you dont get picked off / ganked / have a chance against other groups of 5.

Theres so many fucking people on the server, its just as hard for everyone I think.

Tlear
02-05-2005, 04:16 AM
No shaman weapon buffs are special, you cant do anything about them.

Scorch
02-05-2005, 12:04 PM
Just for the record, from an alliance perspective.

Most people feel they cant go anywhere without being jumped by horde, zerg'd, etc.

STV feels absolutely horde controlled, and most people do quests in the middle of the night solo, or in the day in parties of 5 so you dont get picked off / ganked / have a chance against other groups of 5.

Theres so many fucking people on the server, its just as hard for everyone I think.

Heh, when I was leveling I had to skip STV entirely cause I was getting an Aimed Shot in the back every 3 minutes, so it goes both ways for sure. Shame too, STV's a great zone.

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