Thoughts on warlocks?

[lethial]

Hey guys, what are your feelings towards warlocks? How would you judge their usefulness on the horde side (since you guys have shamans , which has pretty good wipe insurance)

What would you guys recommand lvling up interm of talents and profession? I was a affliction warlock for the OB and now I am actually thinking about trying a destruction based warlock (I have gotten addicted to crits :P )

I can see demonology as a tree that is good for 1v1 pvp but that is about it.

I understand that warlocks are not as good in the frontload dmg department as mages (or rogues) but destruction tree talents seem to augment the destruction spell very well. (the stun of AOE, 70% uninterrruptable casting, biger and more crits)

What are your thoughts? (I know all of you are affliction based)

thanks

[PooFieDooFIe]

Destruction Mastery

Improved Shadow Bolt Rank 5
Bane Rank 5
Devastation Rank 5
Shadowburn Rank 1
Destructive Reach Rank 2
Improved Searing Pain Rank 5
Improved Immolate Rank 5
Ruin Rank 1
Emberstorm Rank 5
Conflagrate Rank 1
Destruction Total: 35

Affliction Mastery
Improved Corruption Rank 5
Improved Life Tap Rank 2
Improved Drain Life Rank 3
Amplify Curse Rank 1
Affliction Total: 11

Demonology Mastery
Demonic Embrace Rank 5
Demonology Total: 5

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my current destruction build, used it from lvl 1-55 and it's basically like playing a mage except having a pet. this build is good for pve (if you can manage your hp/mana) and is pretty decent for pvp, only flaw with this build is no CoE which means if you have no succubus and can't manage to fear your opponent, gg.
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Destruction Mastery

Improved Shadow Bolt Rank 5
Bane Rank 5
Aftermath Rank 2
Devastation Rank 5
Shadowburn Rank 1
Destructive Reach Rank 2
Improved Immolate Rank 5
Ruin Rank 1
Destruction Total: 26

Affliction Mastery
Improved Corruption Rank 5
Improved Life Tap Rank 2
Improved Drain Life Rank 3
Fel Concentration Rank 5
Amplify Curse Rank 1
Grim Reach Rank 2
Nightfall Rank 2
Curse of Exhaustion Rank 1
Improved Curse of Exhaustion Rank 4
Affliction Total: 25

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for pvp this is the ONLY way to go imo.

in raids small or big, .5 seconds makes a HUGE difference, reason why i chose to max out immolate instead of SB is because of the .5 seconds, the .5 seconds could make the difference between you casting off immolate, or taking a extra 1-4 hits casting SB.

max CoE instead of demonic embrace because lvl 1 CoE just about makes no difference with or without the curse.
in raids having when you're trying to kill a rogue or warrior or any ud player or even high lvl people, you'll discover that it is EXTREMELY difficult to cast fear. skilled rogues will kick, gorge, kidney, + nuke you with amazing dps while you're trying to cast off a fear, warriors and ud have the ability to become immune to fear, on high lvl players the fear will probably last only 1-5 seconds. imo it's a complete waste trying to fear when you can just CoE and spam dots while you're running. true if you had a succubus you could just sleep them, but you're not ALWAYS going to have a succubus, therefore you need CoE.

for all you dark pact lovers, it's not needed, if you're able to manage life tap + life drain with the occasional pots, you won't be oom unless something terrible happens, also in raids there should be a healer to to restore the hp lost from life tap. dark pact simply isn't a necessity.

also no conflagerate because imo, conflagerate is almost the same as casting another immolate, and you ARE taking away the dot effect of immolate which is about half of immolate's damage.

no siphon life because it simply is not needed, in those 1.5 seconds you could cast immolate and deal more damage than casting siphon life. if you were in need of hp you could just cast drain life and it'll still be a better alternative.
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all in all it took me a LONG time to figure out this build from trail and error in my countless raids in southshore. imo this is the best build for me but probably not for other players, please feel free to post questions and comments.

[srez]

Problem with Immol as a base DD spell for warlock that every nuke resets Immol Dot, and if you cast immol faster than once per 3 seconds you ll never get a single dot tick. Other side that if you cast immol, then spam shadowbolt you ll get Immol dot advantage ofcourse.
Also WoW mechanics on spell includes 0.6-0.7 seconds delay after each spell. This delay is not affected by ping or spell cast delve. Tho 2.5 cast spell you can cast once per ~3.2 seconds. 10 spells you ll cast in around ~32 seconds. 1.5sec delve spell you can cast every 2.2 seconds. Just test this in game and check the time you need to cast 10 spells. We tested it with ping form 40 till 800, and result is almost the same every time.

All together we can count Immolation dps and Shadowbolt dps and compare it.
Immol 258 dmg + 25% = 322,5
DPS 322,5/2,2 = ~150dps
DPP 322,5/366 = 0,9

Shadowbolt dps (455 + 507)/2 = 481
DPS 481/3,2 = ~150dps
DPP 481/366 = 1,31

Same dps, but dpp is alot higher.

Also if you are using Immol/Shadowbolt combo you can get Immol dot advantage. If you are just spam Immol , its dot will never tick.

PS Forgot to mention, that i tested Improved Immol 5/5 and when i realized how weak it is hitting i had to analize game mechanics and i just explain why it is so gimpy :) power use is extremly high for that pretty low dps. It probably worth using if you use imp, so you can fire debuff for both you and your pet, but evne here immol/SP combo will deal same dmg but with alot lower power cost. Yep SP dps is abit lower, but you ll get Immol dot instead.
PPS Also basic chance to crit is rpetty low even with 450 int, so i gave up on Ruin and came fully Affliction spec (32affliction/19destruction)

[PooFieDooFIe]

yes i realize with constant spam immo you lose the effect of sb,
but the reason i chose immolate was mainly because of the cast time when being attacked. 1.5 seconds is very different from 2 seconds when there are about 2-3 hunters on you, even one hunter. if you were playing backline and were not getting attacked, then immolate + sb is the way to go. it's probably just me, but just about the only time i use sb is when i gain nightfall. i just feel that if you are able hit someone twice with immolate as they are running away rather than hitting them once with sb, you'll be more likely to kill them.

[lethial]

Interesting views...

But There are couple things in destruction tree that makes it that much more interesting.

Better crit.
Harder hiting AOE (and the added stun effect is awesome if it is fixed...)
Searing pain.

Now I know you guys don't think searing pain is great, but i remember clearly that back in CB there was a calculation of dps for searing pain and it was actually the higheset dps spell that warlocks get. The low cast time is good also the fact that it is spammable and you could get much crits from it.

Have any of you made use of searing pain?

[PooFieDooFIe]

I tested out the stun for AoE, doesn't seem to quite work as you said.

searing pain is awesome, i used it in my destruction build and average damage would be 280+ with elements. main reason i don't use it in raids is because it is only good when it crits and the range is a lot shorter than immolate.

[boris]

Stun for AoE seems broken still (or useless).

Searing Pain is great for PvP and soloing. Otherwise the threat kills you.

[srez]

Stun on AEs works only on first tick with 26% chance. Since its 26% chance ot stun on 1.2+ power spells i think its a waste. Stun also is a pretty short. Also i gonna use engineering bombs/mortars to stun alot better.
I dont understand using SP as main nuke, its completly gimpy even with all talants. I prefer Immol/SB in most cases.

About Demonic Embarace. +15% stamina ~= +10% hps. 2% per level of talant. Not that bad, but nothing extra, i prefer 2% dmg, thats it.

[Microdave]

So whats the difference between siphon life and drain life?

[hellion]

So whats the difference between siphon life and drain life?

siphon is a dot that does damage over a long period of time while drain life is a channeled spell that can be interrupted and does damage over 5 seconds.

[Microdave]

Ahh I see, so I assume siphon life levels up from the original talent point strength rght?

[hellion]

Ahh I see, so I assume siphon life levels up from the original talent point strength rght?

every talent ability does

[srez]

Amplify Curse, Curse of Exhaustion don't. Siphon is completly useless spell, b/c too weak. I have it but never use even in PvE.

[hellion]

Amplify Curse, Curse of Exhaustion don't. Siphon is completly useless spell, b/c too weak. I have it but never use even in PvE.

ah +2points