BC Shamans

[SandDemon]

Having never played a shaman above 40 (tried leveling on Nurfed's server to hang out with some friends in Nurfed but became too much for multiple characters), are you shamans still going to pigeon-holed into healing for raids in BC?

-Is 41 Elementalist worth it? Lightning Overload looks nice...
-I'm assuming that Melee shamans, despite even the added dual-wield and Shamanistic Rage are going to be crap? What's the new Rockfury ability now? (Double AP from Rockfury dual-wielding woulda been nice)
-The easiest way to level the same ol' 2hander+wfury?
-What builds are you guys going?

Just wanted some insight from a few more experienced shaman players.

[auren]

41 ele specs suck because a shaman just feels incomplete without nature's swiftness. also lightning overload procs barely ever. if it was buffed to 10% with a +20% crit striek rate then maybe it would be worth it. in 5 man groups dual-wield high enhancement shamans are amazing as long as they know how to play and not pull aggro. best way to level depends on your current gear really. if you have raiding gear access then elemental is really good. enhancement is the spec for lesser geared people. dual wielding is the better option because of 2 weapon enhancements. my normal spec is here (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hxMutc0qbZZxcbt0xs).

[SandDemon]

Eh, is NS so important from a raiding perspective? (strickly as a nuker)

[auren]

its more important than it is now because in trash alone there is tons of healing and thats a nice fall back, im not sure if you've done naxx but the 5 mans are alot like that in terms of the average trash pack's damage so you are constantly healing. but the instances ive done dont seem designed for straight nuking, as a shaman you back up the priest or druid by occasional heals while buffing and nuking as elemental.

[SandDemon]

Done little Naxx, and don't get me wrong...I understand the benefit of instant-casting. Just curious if anyone has tried in a serious "nuker" position the lightning overload talent to see how it works number-wise versus other nukers like frost-bolters. Since I've never played side-by-side with shamans I've got no idea how they compare in raiding to other roles.

Any good shaman gear/leveling resources? How are these for the "classic" roles....

-Enhancement (how often do you use fire totems? do you shock a lot or just keep up totems strength/grace for AP?)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GZxqbbq0sVuqoxoet
-Restoration (how useful is the earthen shield? chain heal and healing wave your most important I'm assuming)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=ugczZeZE00xAcstcd
-Elemental (same question as enhancement, but how much do you use offensive totems?)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hEczVzMqAotZE00x0h

[SandDemon]

Man, people are so quiet about shamans....this a bad sign? :)

[auren]

I havent done the raiding in beta, but your pretty much right on for resto, except i would put 5 points in tidal mastery and 3 in ancestral healing, since it works so well with chain heal. one thing for sure, all of our heals are used, even LHW when main healing an instance.

[SandDemon]

Come on, no one else plays a shaman or has some input?

[Ralrra]

All the shamans in my guild are basically saying that nothing in TBC has been done to alleviate the fact that Elemental shaman's can't sustain dps in a raid setting.

This may change a little bit once there's some more serious groups run with horde paladins so they can have Blessing of Wisdom and Judgement of Wisdom, but personally I still don't think it's going to be enough. Elemental shaman can hit some very good dps numbers, as long as the fight doesn't last more than 1-2 minutes.

On the other hand, dual wield enhancement shammies are going to become a key feature of nearly every raid in my opinion. They can output around 80% of a rogues DPS, and Unleashed Rage is a very, very nice buff for the rogues/dps warrs on the raid.

At the same time, Earth Shield is so good it's almost definatley going to be hit with the nerf bat.

[Molakar]

Have shamans any threatreduction similar to feint but in weaponenhancementstyle?

[SandDemon]

Only one I know of is the one attached to the spirit weapons talent (the parry one that gives 15% threat reduction)

[Molakar]

Cool, must have missed it. But I still doesn't think it's enough. But if you're having Spirit Weapons, Tranquil Air and Blessing of Salvation you're getting a lean mean dpsing machine (or are you?).

[Ralrra]

Shrug, the TBC enhancement shammies in my guild haven't mentioned anything about threat problems while dual-wield dpsing. Keep in mind this is all outside a raid setting though.

[auren]

i find with unrelenting storm and heavy mana/5 gear my damage is very respectable(in ele). granted, i havent grouped with many t2+ mages. whats changing the most is gear appears have high dmg, int, and mana/5. since shamans get 11 crit from talents for lightning spells, crit rating is not very necassary.

[Archetype]

Supposedly, enhance shammies are pretty weak in PvP according to beta testers. Elemental shamans are about the same, they're just complaining because the whole scale unnaturally awesome with gear thing hasn't kicked in yet.

I'm still waiting for an enhance arena video or something that demonstrates DW pvp before I make a judgement call. So far it's looking like i'll be rolling rogue or priest. The only pvp enhance footage i've seen so far (that hasn't been ridiculously lame) was in the new PvPriest video where some DW shammy barely scratched a shadow priest.

[SandDemon]

Supposedly, enhance shammies are pretty weak in PvP according to beta testers. Elemental shamans are about the same, they're just complaining because the whole scale unnaturally awesome with gear thing hasn't kicked in yet.

I'm still waiting for an enhance arena video or something that demonstrates DW pvp before I make a judgement call. So far it's looking like i'll be rolling rogue or priest. The only pvp enhance footage i've seen so far (that hasn't been ridiculously lame) was in the new PvPriest video where some DW shammy barely scratched a shadow priest.

Looking more for raider input, I got tired of WoW pvp like a year ago - if I ever do go back, I'd be just to play twice a week at night to raid with friends.

[Archetype]

Looking more for raider input, I got tired of WoW pvp like a year ago - if I ever do go back, I'd be just to play twice a week at night to raid with friends.


Ah well...

I think they're putting a class limit on raids, so shammies will be nice and desireable in 25 mans =).

Anyways:

Enhance shammies have been given a reason to deal melee dps in raids (unreleased rage) it's likely that at least one enhance shaman will be wanted as a boost to rogue / dps warriors. They also are doing some pretty good dps alone in PvE encounters.

Elemental shamans are still in the same boat as they were before. Bad mana efficiency and the preference of healing over dpsing because an elemental shaman dpsing doesn't really offer much to the raid. ToW can be a reason to spec elemental for raids, but doesn't mean that casting LBs will be desireable.

Restoration shamans are lookin nice for raiding with Earth shield being pretty damn nice on the MT. I'm hearing that Earth shield makes healing in 5 mans kind of boring, that's how good it is.

Anyways if there is one thing the shaman has gained in the expansion, it's PvE viability so you're golden.

Sorry, I tend to assume most posters on the nurfed boards are pvpers.

[SandDemon]

Sorry, I tend to assume most posters on the nurfed boards are pvpers.

Oh i was....just the game lost my interest long ago because it's more about time-spent than really skill.

[auren]

Supposedly, enhance shammies are pretty weak in PvP according to beta testers. Elemental shamans are about the same, they're just complaining because the whole scale unnaturally awesome with gear thing hasn't kicked in yet.

Shamans are terrible in pvp atm, resto is our best spec for right now simply since we cant do much on our own, so might as well keep other classes up. Like you said, our gear doesn't match the competition; so it is like leveling, shamans were pretty pathetic in pvp up until the upper 50s, which im assuming is what will happen.

[Archetype]

Shamans are terrible in pvp atm, resto is our best spec for right now simply since we cant do much on our own, so might as well keep other classes up. Like you said, our gear doesn't match the competition; so it is like leveling, shamans were pretty pathetic in pvp up until the upper 50s, which im assuming is what will happen.

in my opinion, shaman were pretty darn strong throughout leveling 1-60. 60-70 is an entirely different game though. Unless of course you're talking about elemental and in that case, yes elemental was pretty weak leveling up and during the first months of endgame. I'd say with the expansion, shamans have switched roles with warlocks. Now WE'RE the ones with tons of skills that all add up to pretty much nothing.

Saw some pvp DW footage today and i wasn't impressed, even though the shaman in the video totally sucked. Looks like I'm going to be leaving my favorite class because I don't like elemental playstyle and I don't wanna turn into a paladin (resto).

Shadow priest here I come.

[auren]

in my opinion, shaman were pretty darn strong throughout leveling 1-60. 60-70 is an entirely different game though. Unless of course you're talking about elemental and in that case, yes elemental was pretty weak leveling up and during the first months of endgame. I'd say with the expansion, shamans have switched roles with warlocks. Now WE'RE the ones with tons of skills that all add up to pretty much nothing.

Saw some pvp DW footage today and i wasn't impressed, even though the shaman in the video totally sucked. Looks like I'm going to be leaving my favorite class because I don't like elemental playstyle and I don't wanna turn into a paladin (resto).

Shadow priest here I come.

resto spec in elemental gear works very well for me so far in doing nearly everything except grinding, in duels earth shield is so strong. in general pvp i can beat any class with resto simply by outlasting them, plus with elemental gear i can take down rogues/warriors pretty well, granted not as fast as elemental; it just makes the fights more skill based instead of luck based (shock crits, fire nova). i have no enhancement gear so i cant tell you if resto/enh works though.

[Elm]

33/0/28
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GE0zEcMoVoZZxcbthxs

[auren]

33/0/28
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GE0zEcMoVoZZxcbthxs
is that just an all around spec that you'd use? honestly that was the spec i was thinking on before, minus the lightning crit/cast time, but after playing beta i find ele simply doesnt scale with gear well, but resto does completely. +10% healing, +20% to chain heal, +100/40 spell dmg, earth shield. all of these things add up to make a great pve build as well as a very strong pvp support build. something like this (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hg0uxsZZxcft0bsxed). depending on what you want to do, include restorative totems and mana tide.

[Archetype]

I refuse to spec resto =/ Even though i'd be good at it.

[Molakar]

You're good at speccing resto or you're good at healing?

[Archetype]

You're good at speccing resto or you're good at healing?

Hahaha, touche.

What I meant was I'm pretty good at playing the outlasting game with shaman. I've been all about the rank 1 earth shock for a long time =).

I want phenomonal cosmic powerrrrrrr

[SandDemon]

33/0/28
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GE0zEcMoVoZZxcbthxs

That is a really nice spec actually, hmm

[Molakar]

Hahaha, touche.

What I meant was I'm pretty good at playing the outlasting game with shaman. I've been all about the rank 1 earth shock for a long time =).

I want phenomonal cosmic powerrrrrrr

Lawl :D.

Resto isn't my cup of tea to be honest, if I were to play my shaman I'd go with a DW maniac.

[SandDemon]

Yeah, I'm just waiting for a video of a shaman DW maniac with the Tony the Tiger claws from ZG

[Archetype]

Lawl :D.

Resto isn't my cup of tea to be honest, if I were to play my shaman I'd go with a DW maniac.

Yeah I'd probably do that too. Only problem is shamans lack of good CC (earthbind is a nerfed piercing howl, frost shock just sucks) and lack of any sort of anti cc whatsoever makes the enhance game tough in the expansion. A lot of people are whining that dw lacks the burst dps of a 2h, but enhance shammies that rely on triple crit WFs are terrible.

[SandDemon]

Anyone tried out the DW-madman spec? or elementalist raiding?

[scoli]

Every pug shaman i've ever grouped with in TBC is a "DW-maniac" who refuses to heal and are rock bottom on the damage meters.

[SandDemon]

Every pug shaman i've ever grouped with in TBC is a "DW-maniac" who refuses to heal and are rock bottom on the damage meters.

Even with the gear necessary? You couldn't take your normal shaman garb and do it...you'd need to be stacked to high hell

[Theldon]

Every pug shaman i've ever grouped with in TBC is a "DW-maniac" who refuses to heal and are rock bottom on the damage meters.

Sounds like they have paladin syndrome in live.

[auren]

I must say dw shamans who know how to play are very good in groups, while some are bad and just shock+melee, there are quite a few decent ones who know when to toss heals, drop appropriate totems, and save the clothies. I would definitely say they are much stronger than druids in groups when played correctly.

[keboman]

Maybe I'm a weirdo but this build appeals to me:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GgczxcZZgc0tVest0d

Or this one if I want to melee:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxbczLxZgc0pVest0d

[SandDemon]

You'd rather have Eye of the Storm over Nature's Blessing? Maybe for pvp...but not for raiding

[keboman]

Yeah for PVP. I don't PVE I just play other people's characters ;) I have too much to do to spend hours in one sitting.

[Archetype]

Maybe I'm a weirdo but this build appeals to me:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GgczxcZZgc0tVest0d

Or this one if I want to melee:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxbczLxZgc0pVest0d

first build: Is that a PvP build or PvE? Nature's blessing > imp chain heal. I'd also take nature's guardian over purification / healing way for PvP. You're still going to be primarily casting LHW in PvP. I'd spec out of imp healing wave and into Tidal focus with some totemic mastery.

Second build: Again I dunno if it's PvP or PvE oriented, but you're talents are all over the place. If you're going to take toughness, there's really no point in ever using a 2h. And why spec guardian totems for PvP? It doesn't help grounding enough.

[keboman]

Chain heal.. yeah I don't use that much, I just heard people talking about it ;)

You don't think that with 10-12k HP on people Healing Wave might be more viable?

The only class I'm good at playing is Warrior, I duo it with my retarded monkey friend Eddie, and he's just as good. ;)

[Archetype]

Chain heal.. yeah I don't use that much, I just heard people talking about it ;)

You don't think that with 10-12k HP on people Healing Wave might be more viable?

The only class I'm good at playing is Warrior, I duo it with my retarded monkey friend Eddie, and he's just as good. ;)


Chain heal is awesome pve, not so much pvp because of the casting time, the inefficiency of single target healing etc.

Healing wave is meh because of the cast time imo. Ever hear druids complaining that they don't get a flash heal? Yeah...lhw will always be better for pvp because you're still gonna need quick heals and they're much easier to get off under fire. When all is said and done it's much easier to get off 1.5 second casts than 3 and even 2.5 second casts because of the way the GCD works in this game.

As a shaman enthusiast myself, here would be my group support build:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hgczxsZZVcLt0xsxez

Basic idea is survivability and mana efficiency. The key to being a good healing character is being able to stay alive and having lasting power =).

[RubiksCube]

As a healing shaman, I'd personally spec this way:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxbc0xxZV0xt0xsxed

but my healing builds are always f'ed up for solo play :(

[keboman]

Mana Tide seems awfully good to me.. at least in 5v5s. Even if it doesn't give much mana it takes someone's attention away from fighting for a couple seconds at least.

[RubiksCube]

Manatide maybe kinda good, but I'd rather not spec 5 points into "Imp. Restorative Totems" to get a totem that is focussed away in seconds anyways.

Maybe I should've said it's totally for pvp healing.

[SandDemon]

No Improved Reincarnation for pvp arena?

[keboman]

It doesn't work in Arena iirc

[auren]

No Improved Reincarnation for pvp arena?

yeah you cant ankh up in arena's, cd is longer than 15 minutes =/

[Archetype]

As a healing shaman, I'd personally spec this way:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxbc0xxZV0xt0xsxed

but my healing builds are always f'ed up for solo play :(

good build, I'd definitely spec out of imp chain heal and one out of totemic mastery for ancestral healing though. Great talent for group PvP when you're healing the guy getting beat on by the war / rogue. I also MIGHT take imp gw over guardian totems, but that's arguable.

[auren]

enh is not a very good partner with resto in the case of the above spec, key pvp talents such as reverberation and eye of the storm make elemental a much better pvp build. Also, i would get mana tide instead of nature's guardian, or even the ele talents, i cant describe the need for mana in 90% of the matches. and as the above person stated, ancestral healing is a MUST for any spec, totems dont cost anything in arena's for the most part - especially compared to +25% armor; modifications (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hgczxcZZgcctVostIz).

[Archetype]

enh is not a very good partner with resto in the case of the above spec, key pvp talents such as reverberation and eye of the storm make elemental a much better pvp build. Also, i would get mana tide instead of nature's guardian, or even the ele talents, i cant describe the need for mana in 90% of the matches. and as the above person stated, ancestral healing is a MUST for any spec, totems dont cost anything in arena's for the most part - especially compared to +25% armor; modifications (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hgczxcZZgcctVostIz).

Mana tide will never be necessary or even useful in PvP fights against good opponents. It likely won't get more than one tick off.

It's definitely possible that reverb and clearcasting may be better for pvp.

[auren]

you'd be suprised how many ticks actually do go off, the terrain and structures of the arenas can make the totem very inconspicuous

[Archetype]

you'd be suprised how many ticks actually do go off, the terrain and structures of the arenas can make the totem very inconspicuous

Perhaps, you are in beta and I am not.

I really don't think though that mana tide is worth 6 points from a PvP perspective.

[Athrun]

Me and a friend (both gonna reroll shaman, him female draenei, me male), and probably both gonna spec this spec.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uE0zL0hZxVfzVMsVuqo
Our focus is pvp in the form of BG´s, arena, and high-end raids. I don't have access to the beta so I'm clueless whether this spec will be effective in 25 man raids. I feel that shaman is a utility dps class with heals, whereas we're aiming to be mainly dps supporting players, most likely both in dps groups. Since the instances will be 25 man max we expect there will be at least 2 full melee dps groups in an effective 25 man raid. We're thinking about rogues especially. So this spec is hybrid, as shaman is.

This is our spec up to level 40 btw: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxVfzV0sVz
We're gonna 2h dps our way up there, teaming all the way to 70 btw.

We're not thinking of going even a bit resto because of 2 points: 1 is that I have the opinion it's unnecessary. Being a hybrid in a 25 man raid will enable you to throw lhw heals with an efficiency of about 3 hpm, or shocks to grab aggro to offtank dps/kill runners/support dps. The resto tree does not enough to enhance this

The other point is that elemental devastation will be very good to compliment unleashed rage. Restoration doesn't offer a comparable buff to enhancement, although I do have to say totemic focus, totemic mastery and finally nature's guidance are nice as well in terms of support and dps, but they lack utility for pvp i think, despite having bigger ranges on totems.

Oh and we're sick of healing

What our aim is: We're trying to be a solid pvp/arena 2v2 team, with both the same spec, having viability in end-game raiding (in terms of TBC that is).

Now I was wondering if anyone would enlighten me about some misunderstanding in my build/thought process about playing shaman in this way. I know by reading this topic the thoughts are divided, but what we're looking for is a non-healing based build. We both have played about every class there is to 60, including shaman, but we also both don´t have tbc.

P.S going resto for the talents named above leaves up 4 talent points which aren´t to be put in anything but anticipation 4/5, or even 5/5 if we decide to drop 2h spec. Would this be worth it at the cost of losing the talents in elemental for pvp? I know it would be nice for raids, but we're not just pve bitches. Of course we want to try out the new raid content, it might even be fun, but pvp will be our goal just as much if not more than endgame raiding.

Thanks for any responses in advance

[Ralrra]

Honestly, if you want a non-healing build, I'd suggest you don't roll a class that is capable of healing.

Even with all the new fancy dps capabilites of shaman in TBC, they're still 1 of only 4 classes that have healing capabilities, and thus will more often than not be called upon to fill healing rolls in raids.

Unless you have a pre-formed guild thats planning on having the two of you be it's 2 dps/hybrid/melee support shaman, I think you're going to have a very hard time filling the role that you're describing you want to play.

[Athrun]

Honestly, if you want a non-healing build, I'd suggest you don't roll a class that is capable of healing.

Even with all the new fancy dps capabilites of shaman in TBC, they're still 1 of only 4 classes that have healing capabilities, and thus will more often than not be called upon to fill healing rolls in raids.

Unless you have a pre-formed guild thats planning on having the two of you be it's 2 dps/hybrid/melee support shaman, I think you're going to have a very hard time filling the role that you're describing you want to play.
ye we got that covered =]
ofc we can heal, just prefer not to, or on a very rare occassion. like 10% of the raiding time max.

[Archetype]

ye we got that covered =]
ofc we can heal, just prefer not to, or on a very rare occassion. like 10% of the raiding time max.

1) There's no such thing as a PvP shaman build without NS in TBC...that's simply how the class works right now.
2) Elemental Devastation doesn't complement enhance that much simply because you have to min max your gear one way or the other. With that talent build, it looks like you'd be stacking melee / +hit gear and your spell crit will probably be crap. Also, melee oriented shaman don't really spam shocks because they are better used for their utility.
3) Restoration specs might not be necessary on raids, but in PvP restoration is an absolute must. You simply cannot DPS well enough (without extreme, EXTREME luck) to not have to heal in PvP and if you don't have any restoration or at the very least Eye of the Storm, you're fucked. Shamans don't go 21 resto for raid viability, they do it because it's necessary for PvP.

In terms of the actual build...drop improve weapon totems for sure. Pick up mental quickness it helps improve mana efficiency for stormstrike, LS, and shocks. Also, if your ultimate goal isn't raiding and PvE, you should drop unleashed rage (on the individual level, the damage boost isn't really worth 5 talent points imo) and think about picking up elemental fury and eye of the storm if you're going to insist on being ele/enhance.

You guys should roll paladins...can spec all the dps you want and still retain great survivability =)

Seriously though, if you really enjoy dpsing and don't like healing you should roll a more offensive class. You'd probably enjoy it more and do better.

[Athrun]

Well we also wanna try something new and thought that shamans could finally do something new now.. He's coming from being a lock and a warrior as his last characters and my last characters were a priest and mage.
We're both tired of the standard raid roles, and he's tired of his warlock turning into godmode even more. Since he can just go demonology/destruction, dc and let his pet autoattack and he'll beat anyone. Naked too, vs f.ex the best possible mage of his server, lal. ofc other classes are a bit harder, but still.

What we want is a class that's harder to play, not in terms of clickability but in the amount of stuff you get for it, and the times we did play shamans we really enjoyed it, we just never got to endgame. I got 4 shamans myself, all 40+ and the highest stopped @ 56 due to one another of my friends that wanted something different, and well paid server transfers weren't up yet.. so there i went again.

Now if we WOULD want endgame raiding to be our goal, would elemental devastation still not do what we want it to? I'm thinking of a low chance to get it, but if we get it it will increase our +hit anyway, and thus the groups' dmg. Due to unleashed rage that is. well ok maybe not, so then we'd go something like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=uZxVfzV0sAuRZVcez0ho
But the thing about shamanistic rage is that if it does what the tooltip says, it will regen shitloads, like 400 mana everytime it procs. Enough to do more dps with shocks with imo, or not?

Tbh we're willing to spec elemental/resto as well IF that's the only option. And we always had a shaman fetish. I personally am sick of healing, the other guy would be willing to go resto. But after healing as priest for a month or 2 you really are sick of healing.

I don't want to reroll anything else, I cracked the blizzard code, they will buff shamans once again in the future.
I would be grateful to another reply or an in-depth discussion about this matter, seeing as i'm already arranging stuff atm for it, like quitting on my current server (magtheridon eu, best pve server of europe and thus prolly of entire wow).

[Archetype]

Here's how i see it:

Elemental talents are really not that beneficial unless you go deep enough in elemental to make casting lightning viable (lightning mastery). Reverberation IS a good talent for PvP, but it's hard to justify the 5points if you're not heavy elemental specced. Eye of the storm is also good, but it doesn't look like you're speccing that deep in elemental to get it and healing focus accomplishes almost the same thing unless you cast lightning a lot too.

There are situations where elemental devastation may serve to boost your dps / raid dps, but they are few and far between. Like I said before, not taking NS is seriously gimping yourself for PvP. Shamanistic rage is a PvE talent (not a bad one, mind you). In my opinion, you should spec something like 41 enhance and throw the rest in restoration because the lower tier talents have a lot more benefit in restoration than elemental. Nature's guidance is nice for DW shaman because of the extra 3% hit (9% hit total from talents alone), Healing focus is a godsend, totemic mastery is nice for raids and helps in PvP (works with grounding and tremor, just 1 point), and ancestral healing is a nice buff against phys damage classes.

Compare this to elemental where you get 10% less mana on shocks (something like 50 mana per), 5% more damage (also somethign very low if you're not +spell damage geared) because those talents are obviously meant as supplements to shaman who are casting lots of lightning spells. You do get reverberation (nice, but not as nice as healing focus for example), clearcasting (also kind of nice for mana efficiency), and elemental devastation (again a nice idea for a talent, but just doesn't work in practice).

If you really plan on doing nothing but PvE, Enhance/Ele might be viable because you can slap on healing gear when necessary and heal almost as well as a 21 resto shaman. You don't have to heal under fire in PvE, but in PvP you do.

Also, the key to keeping up unleashed rage is hit and crit gear. Reports are that when DWing, it's up almost all the time. I don't think elemental devastation will help unleashed rage particularly much.

Edit: looked at your second build and it's much more PvP friendly. Just gotta drop some totemic focus and either UR or tidal mastery for healing focus. Also, don't take what I say too seriously, just play a spec that you want. It really only matters at level 70 and by then you'll have learned enough to decide for yourself.

[Athrun]

Ok so 0/41/20 to go mainly pve and 0/40/21 to go pvp, or elemental resto? Thanks for all your input btw Archetype, really appreciate it. Makes choosing a lot easier.

[Archetype]

Ok so 0/41/20 to go mainly pve and 0/40/21 to go pvp, or elemental resto? Thanks for all your input btw Archetype, really appreciate it. Makes choosing a lot easier.

No problem, I like discussing shaman theory and it's great to do here because my account isn't active so no posting on the WoW boards.

0/41/20 is agood pve build, but like I said you can make 20/41/0 or 17/44/0 etc good pve builds too because of the way healing works in pve compared to pvp.

Yes 0/40/21 is a good pvp build, but I'm still torn about unleashed rage in PvP (5 points for something that probably won't be as strong as double crusaders is hard to justify).

Elemental resto or enhance? Entirely up to you. I personally adore enhance's playstyle and find elemental to be less enticing. On that note, elemental shamans currently ARE a lot stronger in PvP than enhance shamans. A 40/0/021 or some variance (Basically EM and NS together) will likely be pretty strong in TBC just like it is currently, but it is likely that if anything is gonna get a buff shaman wise it's gonna be some PvP enhance buffs and PvE (very strictly pve) elemental buffs. Elemental shaman simply rock and a good elemental shaman is borderline unstoppable. I remember playing an elemental shaman on the PTR with a premade (had zomething like 200 spell damage, 500 healing) because my gear was never above MC level and laughing at how easy it was to kill people / keep myself alive.

But I much perfer the enhance shaman. I like thinking of my shaman as a self-sufficient tank running around beating on people and healing himself alike. One thing I missed when rolling a warrior and mage was that while they could dps and bring people down, they weren't near as self-sufficient as shaman.

Anyway here is my potential level 70 build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GZVVfzV0sAuoZVcft0ho

If I were to do Ele / Rest:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=GE0zEc0RVoZZVcft0xs

[morrison]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?4503015003001530100000000000000000000 000005032051005013500000

:shrug:

[duds]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=hgczxcZZVcft0xsxez

[Archetype]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/talents.html?4503015003001530100000000000000000000 000005032051005013500000

:shrug:

If you're gonna make a pve oriented elemental build, why not get mana tide instead of elemental mastery?

[morrison]

If you're gonna make a pve oriented elemental build, why not get mana tide instead of elemental mastery?

my main reason is that's a pvp build, not a pve one

im still not sure if i want to put the 10 points after elemental fury into resto or ele D:

[Archetype]

Hmm I don't get the build. Lightning isn't all that viable if it's untalented, so I'm assuming you don't plan on casting much lightning, yet you still take elemental fury and elemental precision. Elemental mastery is best used in conjunction with a chain lightning too.

Could you explain your playstyle to me a bit? Very unique build and I'm automatically gonna give you the benefit of the doubt cause you were accepted into nurfed =).

[morrison]

hit em to shock whoever is getting frontloaded, otherwise make hps go up

i figure that with the shitloads of hps people have at 70, an extra 1.8k on someone can't hurt

that being said there's a good chance i'll eventually end up specced like duds

[Archetype]

Yeah I figure if you're not gonna get stormstrike or lightning mastery you might as well get earth shield. Supposedly it kicks ass. I'm hoping that they buff the other trees though because I don't really wanna play a resto shaman either =/

[Athrun]

Well, made a draenei shaman last week on monday, level 58 now, currently enhancement but I think I'll definately spec elemental at 63 or so, will end up with 33/0/28. I'm esspecially interested how things ended up for the nurfed shamans by this time. Could you link your builds on www.wowhead.com perhaps :)? (Btw, the sole reason you should link to wowhead.com will be evident when you click on morrison's build-link to the official wow page =))

Thanks in advance guys, you help me loads by giving me ideas I haven't even thought about before.

[Archetype]

Well, made a draenei shaman last week on monday, level 58 now, currently enhancement but I think I'll definately spec elemental at 63 or so, will end up with 33/0/28. I'm esspecially interested how things ended up for the nurfed shamans by this time. Could you link your builds on www.wowhead.com perhaps :)? (Btw, the sole reason you should link to wowhead.com will be evident when you click on morrison's build-link to the official wow page =))

Thanks in advance guys, you help me loads by giving me ideas I haven't even thought about before.

For what it's worth, I'm in the same boat as you. Leveling as enhance (46 now) but I'll likely respec elemental or restoration for arenas (probably elemental cause my team has two heal pallies) because enhance has no survivability.

here's what my ele build would look like:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GE0zEc0oisZZVcbt0xs

36/0/25

resto:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GxfzxcZZVcft0xsxez

maybe imp healing wave if it's viable as resto dunno never played one.

[Athrun]

I think I'd rather have storm reach 2/2 than elemental precision 2/3, since 6 yards can matter a lot i think. Too bad I don't have time to continue leveling atm due to studies now that my holidays are over, so will just have to slowly level up now in the weekend and on friday :<

As for resto, I would never take a build where I can't solo farm pve/pvp. I hate relying on others. Also I don't really give a shit about 5v5 arena, I just want to play with my friend in 2v2 :P

[auren]

6 yards in arenas doesnt mean anything, as 90% of the time you're going to be getting hit at point blank. 3/3 ele precision is vital because it negates all resists an elemental shaman can have with earth shock and purge, without any +hit gear. However, elemental specs really do not belong on an arena team because if you're there for damage, bring a mage, hunter or warlock, if you're there for purge, spec resto for survivability, or if you are there to look annoying and be dropped fast, spec ele or enhancement.

My build at the moment is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hxcdxcZZxcbtV0sted. I find mana tide to be crucial in both 3v3 and 5v5, sometiems it is helpful in 2v2 against outlast combos. One thing I see alot of shamans do as an earth shield pvp spec is believe earth shield on its own will take care of the damage, but it is only a boost. A huge key to resto is a very high health pool, there is nothing better than facing 2 melee classes who can time their kicks and pummels perfectly but with a 11k hp pool+purification nature's gaurdian procs are healing for 1300 every 5 seconds and they cannot drop you. There is a huge difference between 8k and 11k. The thing you have to remember is most rogues time their 5 second kidney shots around the time you are at 30-35%, for each 5 seconds you survive through a stunlock, thats that much more hp and then you get time to use more heals. Basically what im trying to say is the more health you get, the higher your survivability goes up on an exponential scale.

[Athrun]

ye but u merely have 9659 hp ^^ still works for you? Or did you mean buffed in your reply?
I wonder if you use healing wave, or lhw mostly? Or just both..

Nature's guardian is pretty insane tho yes, I can see why your theory works. I just hope there's a role other than healer for me to play in arena.. I hope it's not all that bad at 70, and want to believe I can do damage like a mage or warlock.. hunters are kinda gimp i heard since they can't be at range as in world pvp. I thought those extra 6 yards would be helpful in trying to stay out of cc's btw. That was my reasoning behind that anyway

That said, Aure(o)n, do you find any difficulties in solo pvp/pve? I can see it's easier for you to find groups, but what about when you don't feel like grouping, or don't want to group.. Is it at all possible to be solo farming herbs for you, when there's alliance ganking you? I´m really wondering if you have decreased viability, in pve. I can see how your speed will go down considerably, killing mobs.. But can you even take down the mobs that you could with other specs like elemental or enhancement? What I'm basically asking is, do you have damage left? Besides shocks, that is.. Thanks for your replies btw guys :)

[InsaneBull]

My current build as restoration

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GZx0fzZEc0tAeRtcd

And the build I now use when I respec enhancement

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=uZxVbdE0siuooxfct

This is probably what I would use if I was to be enhancement for raiding

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=uZxVbdE0siuqoxfcz

Might vary slightly, second build lacks +%ap buff as I don't feel its a big enough boost when soloing, and particularly when I have to solo heal myself, getting hit isn't fun.

Restoration and constructive use of elemental totems can be nice to farm with, although only really good if you have a hard mob to tank or many mobs to kill, otherwise the 20min cd is a bit of a waste <_< Just Earthshield and flame/frost shock, gets there in the end.


Enhancement is pretty suckass for pvp, I found I got focused like cheap whore and didn't get a chance to do much. Much more survivability as resto, earthshield/ns made it much easier to survive than no ability to effectively heal at all.

Never tried elemental, completely lack the gear for it, can't say I can see it as being that great, I might be wrong though, can only think of one enhancement shaman I've faced in an arena, and he was a complete nub, just meleed me and healed me for more than they were doing damage

[auren]

The thing is as resto, i can kill nearly anything. Earth Shield, mana tide, searing totem and either windfury or flamebrand on my 72 dps fist weapon. Just to see what new soloing potential shamans had, i ran through dm east a few days ago, granted alot of classes could do that before, but shamans have never been a great soloing class for ironman content.

For killing alliance and herbing, I wear a mix of gear that is quite balanced. I'm running at 8k health, 8k mana, ~650 healing 300 spell damage. I have not lost to any class 1v1, and at one point have soloed 2 hunters down in shadowmoon valley :D

As resto solo pvp it is all about gear balance to whatever situation you are under. Of course you are not going to kill things as fast as a destruction warlock, but I've soloed all classes bar paladins so far (I actually killed one, but he was 69 in my questing area; plus I don't fight paladins - takes too long). But in my opinion resto shamans are incredibly fun because there is no 3 shotting or 5 seconding like the other two specs, so it does take a little skill but when played properly you can down anything.

Another spec that I love is 31/0/30, if you aren't into hardcore pvp you have the ability to solo heal any instance (not sure abot heroic) and still do great damage while soloing. Still the problem with that spec is the effect of earth shield and nature's gaurdian on your survivability.

Oh and the 9659 hp is totally unbuffed, ~10.3k when commanding shouted. Also, I'm not usually being ganked, but if I am its me beating them or ns+ghost wolf away. In real pvp I always have a warrior handy.

[Archetype]

The thing is as resto, i can kill nearly anything. Earth Shield, mana tide, searing totem and either windfury or flamebrand on my 72 dps fist weapon. Just to see what new soloing potential shamans had, i ran through dm east a few days ago, granted alot of classes could do that before, but shamans have never been a great soloing class for ironman content.

For killing alliance and herbing, I wear a mix of gear that is quite balanced. I'm running at 8k health, 8k mana, ~650 healing 300 spell damage. I have not lost to any class 1v1, and at one point have soloed 2 hunters down in shadowmoon valley :D

As resto solo pvp it is all about gear balance to whatever situation you are under. Of course you are not going to kill things as fast as a destruction warlock, but I've soloed all classes bar paladins so far (I actually killed one, but he was 69 in my questing area; plus I don't fight paladins - takes too long). But in my opinion resto shamans are incredibly fun because there is no 3 shotting or 5 seconding like the other two specs, so it does take a little skill but when played properly you can down anything.

Another spec that I love is 31/0/30, if you aren't into hardcore pvp you have the ability to solo heal any instance (not sure abot heroic) and still do great damage while soloing. Still the problem with that spec is the effect of earth shield and nature's gaurdian on your survivability.

Oh and the 9659 hp is totally unbuffed, ~10.3k when commanding shouted. Also, I'm not usually being ganked, but if I am its me beating them or ns+ghost wolf away. In real pvp I always have a warrior handy.

Mana tide in arena? Doesn't it get whacked down in a heartbeat by any team with a decent rating? I don't think sacrificing 5% heal/shock crit is worth it for mana-tide. It'd be nice if they could take the prereq off.

I may spec something like 36/0/25 for Arena cause I'll be rolling around with 2 holy/disc paladins and I think 2.5 healers is better than 3.

Here's my idea:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hxfzEc0oARZZVcbt0xs

[auren]

I haven't seen a group try and destroy it yet, plus if it does you're no longer being trained for that 1.3 seconds, so you have the time for another heal

edit: tidal mastery is heal crit and [chain] lightning bolt only

[InsaneBull]

Only been 3v3 arena so far, me and 2 locks, not sure on their specs, but neither is demonology:P Only once had to use manatide, and that was because the damage classes were oom ^^

Watching people try to kill a full resto shaman is kind of sad :| although I lack Nature's Guardian, wasn't ever meant to be a PvP build though

[Molakar]

Just a quick question:

Anyone knows if DW spec + Natures Gudiance (6% hit when dualwielding and 3% hit with spells and melee) are stacking / are bugged? Seen reports that 3/3 in each doesn't do anything at all. So I'm wondering if I'm wasting 6 precious talentpoints here or not.

[Archetype]

Just a quick question:

Anyone knows if DW spec + Natures Gudiance (6% hit when dualwielding and 3% hit with spells and melee) are stacking / are bugged? Seen reports that 3/3 in each doesn't do anything at all. So I'm wondering if I'm wasting 6 precious talentpoints here or not.

Not sure, but according to my dps meter my miss rate is around 19% even though I have 6% from the DW spec (no hit gear yet).

Also, I think I found a nice little bug:

If you're DWing and using two weapons of the exact same speed, flurry hits get eaten up only when they both swing and only one hit gets eaten up, so you get 6 hits sped up for the 3 flurry charges.

that may be true despite what weapon speeds you use, though.

Also, the change to stoneclaw is hardly noticeable and I'm still leveling (the part of shaman career the change should have impacted most).

[Molakar]

According to Snorkle (shamangod of europeanforums) the two talents is bugging and not giving us the needed hit. He swinged (swung?) like 1500 times on one mob (some mob that goes immune when at 1%, it still takes damage but you can't kill it) without talents and 1500 times with talents. I think he hit like one more time with talents then without talents. So therefore he came up with the theory that the two talents are bugged.

Cool bug you found, then I have to get my arenaranking up so I can buy 2x Gladiator axes ;).


Another bug I've found is the WF5/WF4 combo is still working, procced like 5-6 WF with the OH and then procced 2x WF crits with the MH. Didn't take a screeny but in about 2-3 seconds I took a lvl 70 mob from 100% to 0% :P.

[Archetype]

Yep, they still haven't changed the downranking of windfury. Guess they couldn't figure out how to do it in time for the patch.

[Athrun]

I have the choice to be elemental for the best guild of the server, whereas I already got used to the opinion that resto would be best for pvp etc.. Is this still the case if you have the best viable gear? Or in other words, is elemental worse than resto if you can get the gear you can theoretically get for it..? I gotta decide like, in a day. Would appreciate it a lot what you guys think. 69 now :)

[auren]

Elemental with the best gear possible is amazing in 2v2s; however, in 5v5s you simply can't take the hits. If you are going for arena gear you definitely want to do 5v5s, for which resto will be the best spec to go. On another note, well geared elemental with earth shield spec is one of the best pvp spec/set you can do in terms of outdoor pvping.

An alternative you could do is go elemental then find an enhancement shaman and another healer for a 3v3, that group would be quite powerful against melee and casters alike. That way you could gear out in a little resto arena gear and elemental pve gear then mix and match for the best set possible.

[Archetype]

Elemental with the best gear possible is amazing in 2v2s; however, in 5v5s you simply can't take the hits. If you are going for arena gear you definitely want to do 5v5s, for which resto will be the best spec to go. On another note, well geared elemental with earth shield spec is one of the best pvp spec/set you can do in terms of outdoor pvping.

An alternative you could do is go elemental then find an enhancement shaman and another healer for a 3v3, that group would be quite powerful against melee and casters alike. That way you could gear out in a little resto arena gear and elemental pve gear then mix and match for the best set possible.

I think going restoration vs elemental really depends on your group makeup. If you have two dedicated paladin healers, for example, i'd rather go elemental than resto because an ele shaman with like 24 resto can spot heal well and damage well and take the anti ranged / melee crit talent.

In a 2 healer 5v5 team Resto shaman is clearly the better choice though.

[Athrun]

What about a 2v2 situation with the other being a warrior? Btw, was thinking of going 0/5/56 if going resto.

[auren]

Elemental shamans bring nothing to 5v5s that another caster cannot do twice as good. Shamans are pvp healers in 5 man arenas plain and simple. The best way to do that (above group) is drop a paladin and bring in a resto shaman, then you have the best of both worlds with unlimited mana and incredible hps.

I'd highly recommend Eye of the storm/reverberation in 2v2s if that's your thing. You're nto doing as much healing (as in a 5v5) so the more spell interupts the better. Focused casting is really hard to beat for two reasons: it's dispellable, meaning the chance for earth shield staying up is better; free casting under pressure.

Elemental with a warrior in 2v2s is entirely too vulnerable to melee heavy groups dropping you very fast. Without heavy resto you will be stunlocked to death by a rogue. However, elemental with a rogue on your side who can play is a very powerful group. 2.4k crits every 2 seconds on someone while they're stunlocked for ~7 seconds is very hard to beat. In my 2v2 with a warrior, we ran into that group but luckily the warrior crit every time on the rogue so their plan didnt work to well, but we netted 24 points while we were at 1710.

[Athrun]

Hmm focussed mind + healing focus give a total of 85% to not be interrupted, I don't think it's worth spending 18 points in elemental, where you're wasting 15. I am of the idea now, that I'll just take mass +sta and then some healing gear, go 0/5/56, which is imba for raids, and always group up with my warrior bitch. EOTS is nice, but it only covers the other 15% left to not be interrupted when you're critting. And when you're critted you have that 85% to not be interrupted anyway.

Anyway I guess I chose to be a healer then :p 5v5 will be something I do as well, at a later time.

[Valkyr]

I'd rather take a priest + paladin combo for the 2 healers in my 5 v 5 group than a shaman and a paladin, for various reasons.

firstly, shamans seems to get drop much faster than a priest does, remember they have no HoT's, yes grounding totems are nice and nature swiftness too but they dont compare to prayer of mending and a 1500 HP shield every 15 secs, not to mention renews.

Shamans cant remove magic from them, and a paladin is a terrible dispeller, which means your group is much more vulnerable to DoT's than a priest stripping 2 debuff's every 1.5 sec off your group.

Maybe its the fact the shamans I've been fighting with/against think they can get away without getting heavy stam oriented gear, and think their mail armor and shield means enough survivability to outlive an assist train, but they're getting owned extremely quick for all the ones I've seen in 5 v 5's.

[auren]

I have not died yet in any 5v5s that we have won, nor has my death in any of our losses meant defeat. the priest+pally groups we have ran into have been completely decimated because the priest drops very fast to an enhancement shaman and warrior with mage ae'ing the entire group. If the match goes according to plan, the only person that dies is either the mage or enhancement shaman late in the fight because I run out of mana, but by then the opponent is down to 2 or 3 people left so it's already a win.

ps. do you not like bloodlust, tremor, poison cleansing and windfury?

[Margus]

Shaman and Paladin all the way for me as a warrior.
Windfury and Blessing of Freedom = ultimate warmachine!
Tremor is "anti-fear" for everyone in group and Poison Cleansing is nice against Rogues and Hunters and Shaman don't take that much damage off physical damage as shamen do.

[Archetype]

What does a resto shaman have over elemental in 5v5?

Earthshield gets dispelled so fuckin fast by good teams it's not even funny. It'll be lucky to get 1 maybe 2 ticks off. The other survivability benefit resto has is nature's guardian which is nice, but only kicks in when at 30% hp. Ele shamans can get a 6% melee/hunter crit reduction. ALL shamans are going to depend on their teammates if they get focus fired. A shaman NEEDS blessing of freedom.

What does a sham bring to the table over a paladin? It's not like earth shock every 5 seconds doesn't shut down healers or anything. You don't have to be meaninglessly 900 damage shocking the pal every once and a while either, use rank 1. The offensive purge is pretty key too. Plus even if its just a chain lightning mixed in with heals (that will do 10% less) eles add great burst dps to groups. With the new clear cast, they actually have some staying power too.

My biggest reason for going ele is my group make up though. We're likely to go with a baseline of pal pal shaman and it's likely that most of the time our other groupies will be casters. This means lots of time we won't have MS and we won't have much physical dps, so we can't just outlast everyone. If I were on a priest/sham team or a pal/sham team, I would of course be going restoration. Tri-dedicated healer teams at the top tier though usually get beaten into the ground by 2 healer teams, so at least a 2.5 team has more of a chance.

Priests have mana burn though, which is a big plus.

And of course any shaman in the arena should have a fair deal of stamina / resilience gear. Shaman are a prime focus fire target because if they're left alone they can really fuck another team up and really benefit their own team.

Now the question is whether I take lightning overload over the silence resist talent. I can see silence resist being very clutch, especially when combined with talisman of the breaker and pally conc aura, but I can also see a clutch lightning overload taking down someones last 10-15%.

[Molakar]

Just wondering what types of trinkets you guys are using.

At the moment I'm enhancement and using the Bladefists Breadth and Terrokar Tablet of Precision (http://www.thottbot.com/i28041 and http://www.thottbot.com/i25937). But I also have Core of Ar'kelos (http://www.thottbot.com/i29776), Ancient Dranei War Talisman (http://www.thottbot.com/i31617) and Ogre Maulers Badge (http://www.thottbot.com/i25628). I also have one or two trinkets that reduces the threat other nearby enemies or something like that.

My hitrating is about 130-150, crit% is about 20-21ish and my ap is 900ish. These are the unbuffed stats.

So what trinkets do you think I should use and what trinkets should I go after when I'm staring raiding etc?

[HellCry]

Im enhancement aswell. Using Hourglass and Bladefists now. Will try to snag dragonspine from gruul and replace Bladefists.