Butter to the Fishes: Whats the best MS Spec for BC

[Jerom]

Sry this was a german saying. Couldnt resist...

Im still curious whats the most usefull MS Spec i should go for in the next Patch.

I would think this looks usefull

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TAM0dAbog0dioVVzVZc

Or get enrage instead of the Tactical Mastery

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pAM0dAbog0dioVVzm0L

[Molakar]

42/19 is what I'm going to take since you have a trainable "spell" that let you retain 10 rage when you switch stances.

Oh and can you help me out with the grammar/spelling of these three phrases?

"Ich habt/habe eine sauerkraut ins meine lederhosen"

"Enschüldigung, wohin können Ich geld weschlen"

adn

"Was kostet das eis"

I know it's horrbile spellt / a rape to the german grammar etc but I've only been studying it for 3 weeks ^^.

[Jerom]

Schools in! Here we go...

"Ich habt/habe eine sauerkraut ins meine lederhosen"
WRONG!
correctly you would say "Ich habe eine Weisswurst in meiner Lederhose"
A Lady would laugh or puch you in the face depends on her mood.

"Enschüldigung, wohin können Ich geld weschlen"
WRONG!!!
I think you mean "Entschuldigung wo kann ich Geld waschen".
A typical Phrase used by members of the Mafia here in Germany.

"Was kostet das eis"
sorry WRONG AGAIN!!!
"Was kostet der Scheiss!" you would get the same answer but the Ice Vendor may look a littel bit pissed.

I seriously thinking about getting a german english phrase book out but i think it might get me in jail....

[Molakar]

Lawl, <3 you.


Weisswurst, isn't that like "white sausage" or something like that?

Gonna try the other two the next time I'm going to the bordershop in Rostock to pick up some cheap booze ;).

[onyx]

the 41 arms is garbage at 70.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMhdNioM0zbZVxzVzxRc

3/5 flurry combined with the plethora of haste trinkets that will be available = jesus.

[Gigamo]

Been messing around with builds too, 42/16/3, 41/20, 35/23/3, the one onyx mentioned... Guess I'll have to try and see :)

[Otzo]

@Onyx

Thoughts about spell reflect? garbage or good? guessing iits not worth the 3 points in TM atleast. >.>

[Pennyman]

I'm with Onyx on this one, although i'd choose a few different talents for different tastes.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LV0xbAbog0dZE0zVzxRc

Instead of doing 2/2 Blood Frenzy, i might instead take 5/5 flurry, all depends on how things at 70 work out. As it is currently, i could take 2/2 blood frenzy and deep wounds is almost always on my target (4% damage) and i could easily put rend on it (if the damage stacks is another thing im wondering about, so 8% with both abilities on the target at the same time?). 4% damage alone though is quite a bit with how much we already hit for, 8% would be totally worth it.

[Sar]

yeah, butter bei die fische! ^^

onyx, your build seems awsome for arena purposes. but whats the deal with 3/3impr. HS versus 5/5parry? another question is: impr. thunderclap > iron will?

for allround-purpose i like this specc, more pve-orentated but last stand seems to be very interesting in arena: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TVMcdAioM0dioVZf0t0h

[Molakar]

I tried having swordspecc and then going fury with the rest of my talents, but that kinda sucked :p.

[uro]

yeah, butter bei die fische! ^^

onyx, your build seems awsome for arena purposes. but whats the deal with 3/3impr. HS versus 5/5parry? another question is: impr. thunderclap > iron will?

for allround-purpose i like this specc, more pve-orentated but last stand seems to be very interesting in arena: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TVMcdAioM0dioVZf0t0h

HS does extra damage to dazed targets. Also, since youre gonna have flurry up most (if not all the time) your rage gen is going to be really high, so dropping HS's is going to viable. Finally, imp clap is pretty much amazing in expansion. a 20% attack slow for 30 seconds? that + imp demo severely gimps a melee train.


also, 4% damage over second wind? no thanks. second wind is jesus on wheels.


here's what im going with when i hit 70:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcbAioM0zbZVxzVzxRc

[Ferlucii]

Are you really confident rage generation will be enough?

ANd also what profession are you guys gonna take? Is it worth it to roll blacksmith for one of those weapons?

[Sar]

i´ll stay with my goblin-engi. grenades cannot be used in arena, but all other items/trinkets below the 15min cooldown. here are some nice ones:

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=7058
(this baby has a range of 45yards, and the stamina is awsome)

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=13060
(low stats and armor, but the 4000dmg-absorb could be cool)

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=11644
(good stats, and as an orc-warrior like me you can get some nice resistances if you specc iron-will)

@Ferlucii:
supreme is only the 2h-mace, but i hate maces *klong-sound* wuhahah...

[Dunderdon]

what are you gonna go for when the patch is released and we still have 51 talents with the new trees?

i am not quite sure yet :/

[Sar]

something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LVMcdAioM0dioVZs to test all the new goodies in the arms-tree with my char.

[onyx]

something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LVMcdAioM0dioVZs to test all the new goodies in the arms-tree with my char.

uh, no enrage?

[Gigamo]

What are you gonna be speccing like onyx?

I'm personally thinking towards this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcdNioM0zbZVxzm0h

[Sar]

onyx, my guild likes to clear naxramas before the addon. and i think that bloodfrenzy is an awsome talent, especially in 40ppl-raids. therefor i specc heavy-arms and no enrage :/

[Soruss]

the 41 arms is garbage at 70.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMhdNioM0zbZVxzVzxRc

3/5 flurry combined with the plethora of haste trinkets that will be available = jesus.

So I'm guessing with decent gear at 70 you expect to be able to generate enough rage to use ms/ww whenever the cooldowns are up?

I can't see myself giving up TM any time soon.

[uro]

You'll have more than enough.

[Jerom]

Wouldnt Swordspec + unbridled Wraith be the best to chose for this Talent spec?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pAM0dNbog0zbZVVzVzxRc

Swordspec + MS + Flurry + Unbridled Wraith = Instagib?

[twilight]

what about an MS / concussion blow / mace spec together with stormherald (http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=14725)

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TIMcdAbqM0zbZVZciuof0z

who gives a shit about going immune in short arena play?

[Pennyman]

what about an MS / concussion blow / mace spec together with stormherald (http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=14725)

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TIMcdAbqM0zbZVZciuof0z

who gives a shit about going immune in short arena play?

Well unfortunately with that many stuns, you'll find that

A. The duration of your stuns will be terrible after charge/intercept anyway

B. After a wep proc or mace spec proc that happens after your charge/intercept (would happen pretty quick tbh) the target would already be immune.

C. The ability to use them when you want them is whats so beautiful about stuns, just randomly getting a short duration stun isnt all that helpful.....usually.

D. Improved Intercept is golden in the world of stuns and i'd take it any day, along with the vastly better for PvP fury talents over concussion blow.

[Ralrra]

Well unfortunately with that many stuns, you'll find that

A. The duration of your stuns will be terrible after charge/intercept anyway

B. After a wep proc or mace spec proc that happens after your charge/intercept (would happen pretty quick tbh) the target would already be immune.

C. The ability to use them when you want them is whats so beautiful about stuns, just randomly getting a short duration stun isnt all that helpful.....usually.

D. Improved Intercept is golden in the world of stuns and i'd take it any day, along with the vastly better for PvP fury talents over concussion blow.


Mace spec and weapon proc stuns aren't on the same diminishing returns timer as controlled stuns like charge, intercept, and conc. blow

[Pennyman]

Mace spec and weapon proc stuns aren't on the same diminishing returns timer as controlled stuns like charge, intercept, and conc. blow

Good call.

Even so, with the original argument, controlled stun's are the only kind of stun worth having and improved intercept is so much nicer than concussion imho.

That spec would be alright for a kind of combined PvP/PvE spec. With the stuns you'd do real good in keeping a flag carrier occupied in WSG :P.

[Dunderdon]

onyx, my guild likes to clear naxramas before the addon. and i think that bloodfrenzy is an awsome talent, especially in 40ppl-raids. therefor i specc heavy-arms and no enrage :/

yeah i was thinking the same way
going with enrage leaves me with the same old crappy build i have used since i started playing this game :/

[The Arc]

Anyone in beta have any info on exceptional ms 2hs, other than the craftable ones?

Edit: To clarify, I mean lvl 70 2hs.

[Otzo]

What are you gonna be speccing like onyx?

I'm personally thinking towards this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcdNioM0zbZVxzm0h

Thinking about the same but wondering should i go 2/5 enrage and 5/5 battleshout tho, kinda tempted to full BS first.

[Dunderdon]

i am 5/5 bs and 4/5 enrage at the moment
and i do like that

[Margus]

uro (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcbAioM0zbZVxzVzxRc) vs. onyx (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMhdNioM0zbZVxzVzxRc) or the other shit (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LGMebhioM0zbZVxzVzxRc)?

edited :>

[Molakar]

Same talentbuild on every link.

Don't pick up the +4 wepskill talent if you're not going to pvp.

[Margus]

i'm just not sure what to take from the t2-t4 talents.
full Iron Will and TC over TC and full 2H spec or even take "the onyx mix" and get 3/5 iron will, anger management and 4/5 2H spec.

'cause me is ye' poor little warrior and don't have 'nuff money to respec every 2nd day :>

[Gigamo]

As already stated earlier, I don't see why you'd pick iron will when you're taking second wind. They totally contradict eachother.

[Theldon]

Apparently they've changed weaponskill drastically...

Anyone know what the outcome is?

[Ralrra]

Apparently they've changed weaponskill drastically...

Anyone know what the outcome is?

+weapon skill will no longer effect glancing blows. Not entirely sure what it does know, last I heard was that each point adds like 0.25% crit or something, though I'm sure it's still being tweaked. Blizz stated they still want weapon skill to be the single best thing to look for on gear, but not to such a degree that it's worth using edgemaster's over gaunts of annihilation and such.

[Soruss]

As already stated earlier, I don't see why you'd pick iron will when you're taking second wind. They totally contradict eachother.

I don't think they contradict each other at all. Both make stunning less effective. Also, both work against things that aren't stuns, second wind vs. immobilizing effects + ironwill vs. charm.

They overlap a bit, but I wouldn't say it's enough to make either one ineffective when paired with the other.

[Xaos]

Agreed. Generally, you do not want to be stunned at all, second wind or not, because you cant do much then, so you're worthless for your team... But, if shit *does* happen, second wind may make it less painful.

[onyx]

Agreed. Generally, you do not want to be stunned at all, second wind or not, because you cant do much then, so you're worthless for your team... But, if shit *does* happen, second wind may make it less painful.

quoted for emphasis.

[Soruss]

I cannot for the life of me come up with a talent build at level 60 that I like as much as the current 31/20.

ER is basically worthless even at 60 with shitty gear. Not to mention that no piercing howl is just ridiculous. I don't think I'd put more than 33 points into arms, but if I do go 33 into arms it's almost impossible to get a decent amount into enrage and losing second wind by going 31 kind of sucks too.

Well, at least now the best talent specs aren't obvious. I guess this is what you call "options"

[Sar]

i can copy that soruss! for pvp i found impr.MS and ER really worthless, and playing without enrage sucks bad.

acutally i play 33/18/0 on the european PTR and it "works" for me, but only 10rage after stance-change is not really cool :/

for lvl70 i cannot really decide, the build form uro and onyx look awsome and after some testing on the PTR it seems to really make sense.
my version would look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcdNioM0zbZVxzVzxRc

BUT, in my mind the price for 3/5flurry is too high. if you drop that flurry you can get full blood frenzy and tactical-mastery, could look like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TGMcdNioM0dbZVxzm0xRZc

how would you decide?

[dr_AllCOM3]

you don't really need TM, reflect is so worthless unless being a flag carrier.
3/5 flurry is almost like ER, but you get DW and imp. Intercept too. Two very good arena skills.
I'd do: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LMhxdNbqM0zbZE0zuMxRc
I like blood craze, new mace spec and the high sta on maces that the other weapons don't seem to get (changing weapon spec is'nt a big deal thou ;))

[Soruss]

I can see going without TM strictly for 5vs5 where you have a lot of support and are generally last on target priority (so you'll be in zerker 99% of the time anyway). But I'll most likely play my warrior more in 2vs2/3vs3 and world pvp with more casual players than a hardcore arena group. In those settings I think TM will be a must.

I'm going to go with a 60 build without second wind and 3 in enrage with 2 in TM tonight on ptr. We'll see how that works out.

[Random`]

Im liking uro's build the most, tbh not having TM wont be that sucky especially with second wind, imagine you've just changed stances to overpower the dodging mage(why can clothies dodge please :/) and he frost nova's, bam theres 20 rage for you, by the time hes pissed off too max range and begins to rage you, you'll have regened some hp(if already lost) and gained some rage.

atm im like 41/11/3 as im not 70, but tbh, a lot of the time im sitting here with surplus of atleast 15/20 and hate using HS on principal as it gimps rage generation as it is on live.

my 2¢

[HellCry]

As already stated earlier, I don't see why you'd pick iron will when you're taking second wind. They totally contradict eachother.

I am pretty sure SW procs on resisted stuns. I quit my imba war btw Gigamo :<

[Gigamo]

I read :) sad but GL in whatever you'll do ^^

[HellCry]

Apparently SW procing on resisted stuns was a bug and is now fixxed, GG nerf orcs moar!

[Margus]

well, now what's better, being stunned and gaining hp/rage or resisting a stun and getting nothing?
i think stun resist/immunity ist better than sitting in a kidney shot while your mates getting ganked :>

resisting a kidney shot in a 1on1 versus a rogue or a black out from a SHADWO PREIST is jesus!

[HellCry]

Btw the rage normalisation in its current state normalises the rage you get from haste effects aswell. That means you will get as much rage having 5/5 flurry up constantly hitting a target as you would hitting the same target with TF debuff and no flurry. With the pletoria of -crit things (resilience, talents, molten armour etc) you are looking at a prettly low effective critrate in PvP. Imp OP will help tons here.

Still I feel that atleast flurry is well worth atleast the first point. Personally I would go for something like 35/26 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LVMcdAwoM0dbZVxzVzxRz) if you can manage without TM.

[keboman]

Are you serious?

HAHAHA

So basically.. if I want the most rage I'll be MS with Sword spec and Endless Rage and either have 5/5 enrage or full tm.

I know the class is overpowered and runs on broken mechanics and all.. but an expansion being one step forward and two steps back kinda sucks..

[Soruss]

I tried a 60 build without TM last night on PTR. It wasn't too bad, but honestly most of the arena matches were so one sided for my team or the other team (lol 3vs1?) it was really hard to tell how it would work out in a close fight. Not to mention the lag which made me feel like I was pressing keys through bubble wrap.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pVMhdAbaM0zbZVxzm0h

[Gigamo]

Using the exact same one on test. :) Indeed not bad, and indeed the lag fucks up.

[keboman]

So how are warrior vs warrior fights now? Is it still:

Warrior in MC gear beats warrior in greens with 50% health.
Warrior in BWL gear beats warrior in MC gear with 50% health.
Warrior in AQ gear beats warrior in BWL gear with 50% health.
Warrior in Naxx gear beats warrior in AQ gear with 50% health.

;)

[Anduryondon]

dunno vs what ur playing, but at a certain gear it was just based on luck

[HellCry]

dunno vs what ur playing, but at a certain gear it was just based on luck

Yeah,either luck or 1 warrior going TF+shield in hybrid gear

[Soruss]

So how are warrior vs warrior fights now? Is it still:

Warrior in MC gear beats warrior in greens with 50% health.
Warrior in BWL gear beats warrior in MC gear with 50% health.
Warrior in AQ gear beats warrior in BWL gear with 50% health.
Warrior in Naxx gear beats warrior in AQ gear with 50% health.

;)

More like:

Vadren in his ghetto epics beats warrior in greens with 95% health.
Vadren in his ghetto epics beats warrior in MC gear with 80% health.
Vadren in his ghetto epics beats warrior in BWL gear with 40% health.
Vadren in his ghetto epics beats warrior in AQ gear with ~10% health.
Vadren in his ghetto epics has a healer and beats warrior in Naxx gear with 100% health ;p

[keboman]

Have you ever been hit by a warrior with Might of Menethil and Naxx gear? Honestly? He went through 5.5k armor and 5khp like nothing.

I don't think I can live through a MS warrior with that gear even if my whole team healed me ;)

[Margus]

hmmm...what to take for a pre-bc spec?
5/5 2h spec or 5/5 sword spec? or does it even make a difference? :>

[Ralrra]

hmmm...what to take for a pre-bc spec?
5/5 2h spec or 5/5 sword spec? or does it even make a difference? :>

It depends on what your goal is, and of course what weapon you're using. If you're trying to put out respectable raid dps while maintaining good PvP utility, you'll want to have 2-handed spec, it makes a huge different in raid dps performance. However in PvP you're still going to want sword-spec for the burst potential imo. Is there a particular reason you don't want to get both, or at least partial 2hand spec with full sword spec?

[Margus]

As said, it's just for the 2.0ish phase till TBC, when i want both full then i have to take 1pt out of enrage or second wind :>

I gonna respec to ms cause i want to do some pvp for 2 to 3 set pieces.

Gear: http://ctprofiles.net/4731797

ps. you might also get me some hints how i can pimp my equip :D

[Ralrra]

I'd prolly do this for that period of time then.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMcdNbog0zbZVxzm0h

[Margus]

*waiting for patch*

[Pennyman]

If you want 5/5 2h, 5/5 sword spec, and 2/2 second wind, whats wrong with going something like......

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pV0xbAbog0zbZE0zV0b

[Sar]

4/5 2h-specc and 3/5enrage > 5/5 2h and 2/5enrage...really!

anyone have seen the 2 new sets (T4 & "Destroyer") and their rage-reducing bonus on whirlwhind, MS, bloodthrist and shildslam? they look kinda cool. but couldnt remember when i had a set with "usable" offensive boni also ^^

[HellCry]

4/5 2h-specc and 3/5enrage > 5/5 2h and 2/5enrage...really!

anyone have seen the 2 new sets (T4 & "Destroyer") and their rage-reducing bonus on whirlwhind, MS, bloodthrist and shildslam? they look kinda cool. but couldnt remember when i had a set with "usable" offensive boni also ^^

There is 2 version of booth T4 (Warbringer) and T5 (Destoyer), 1 offensive and 1 defensive,hence the offenive bonuses.

[Sar]

yep i know there are 2 versions of a set to choose. but i found it irritating that the "Destroyer" has only 5pieces, from all i saw in pics and videos about the T5 is hat lots more than 5 items.

or could that Destroyer-thing be the new Dungeon-set/Valor³ ?

[Mithrim]

Anyone have any advice on a level 60 spec with the new talents? Currently basic 31/20. And does anyone else find that preists are now fucking impossible to kill solo?

[Ralrra]

Anyone have any advice on a level 60 spec with the new talents? Currently basic 31/20. And does anyone else find that preists are now fucking impossible to kill solo?

The current trend seems to be 33/18 with 2/2 second wind and only 3/5 enrage.

[Soruss]

Anyone have any advice on a level 60 spec with the new talents? Currently basic 31/20. And does anyone else find that preists are now fucking impossible to kill solo?

Solo? No. In a duel? Haven't really dueled a lot since the patch.

[Mithrim]

Solo? No. In a duel? Haven't really dueled a lot since the patch.

I meant nigh impossible to kill in a duel circumstance, when 100% of their attention is on you. Maybe im just unlucky with crits, but a good preist with good gear will just shit on me =(

[Soruss]

I meant nigh impossible to kill in a duel circumstance, when 100% of their attention is on you. Maybe im just unlucky with crits, but a good preist with good gear will just shit on me =(

"good priest with good gear" is not very specific. Shadow priest, 41 disc priest, holy nuker, etc... ?

The only secret to killing priests is to save and use your instants on the shield. Even that's not much of a secret.

[onyx]

33/18 here, however I do miss the 25 rage stance swaps, but when pvping, I rarely go to battle as it is.

[Tarr]

33/18 here, however I do miss the 25 rage stance swaps, but when pvping, I rarely go to battle as it is.
I tried 33/18, but I'm so used to the charge, berserker stance mid-charge combo that I couldn't stand not being able to do it. Been doing it for the last 2 years heh. And being vulnerable to fear while I got rid of the initial 30 rage sucks.

I felt that the only option was charge, MS, then zerker or something along those lines, otherwise I felt like the rage was going to waste and the 2 talents in imp charge were pointless otherwise. Often I'd get fucked by priest fear. So now I'm 34 / 14 / 3. I'd like to have enrage instead of TM, but I just can't manage it. It's too much of a sacrifice with my play style. How do you fix this problem? How did you adjust your play style, and particularly what do you do the second you hit charge?

[Gigamo]

Yeah it's hard to get used to, but it's possible. For now I usually just charge, ms, and then swap zerker.

[Soruss]

I actually dropped imp charge because of charging and switching to zerker. Haven't decided if it was a good or bad idea yet.

[keboman]

I still like 41/5/5 more than 33/18.. I can't play without TM.

[Soruss]

I still like 41/5/5 more than 33/18.. I can't play without TM.

I find it borderline unbearable in duels. In group pvp I don't miss TM so much.

[keboman]

33/18 is definitely the way to go if pug stomping.. 41/5/5 seems more powerful in some ways.. improved bloodrage is really nice and I can kill druids/plate faster.

Losing piercing howl REALLY sucks though.. that should be a core warrior ability ;)

[Archetype]

I find it borderline unbearable in duels. In group pvp I don't miss TM so much.

whats tm really good for? arent you typically in zerker stance all the time till you switch to overpower? thats what all the warrior vids show =)

[Soruss]

whats tm really good for? arent you typically in zerker stance all the time till you switch to overpower? thats what all the warrior vids show =)

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[keboman]

Hmm. As 41/5/5 warriors die like 2x faster than rogues. I can easily beat a 33/18 warrior 1v1 (not that it matters) but rogues are soo annoying. Outside of druids they take the longest to kill by far, even paladins die faster if their shield isn't up.

No piercing howl REALLY sucks though. Not sure if it's worth the change. I think in BC I'll be something like 41/18/2

[Gigamo]

I'll probably go 35/23/3 in BC, depends how pvp turns out at 70.

[Tarr]

I'll probably go 35/23/3 in BC, depends how pvp turns out at 70.
Speaking of builds like this, I was thinking the same thing for BC. Instead of putting 2 points into blood frenzy, why not max out 2h spec and battle shout?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMhdAioM0zbZE0zV0xRZc

[Ralrra]

Speaking of builds like this, I was thinking the same thing for BC. Instead of putting 2 points into blood frenzy, why not max out 2h spec and battle shout?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMhdAioM0zbZE0zV0xRZc

Blood Frenzy gives 2% damage per point instead of just 1% from 2h weapon spec. Yes it depends on deep wounds or rend being up, but with the increased debuff slots that's an easy requirement to accomodate.

[Sar]

i´d take bloodfrenzy over 2h-specc, like ralrra said.

currently i favor 35/23/3 also: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TGMcdNioM0dbZELz00xRZc yes, no improved BS!

with my warriors actually i have a huge debatte about "BattleShout vs. Commanding Shout" and what is the best for the team. in groups i have only 2 melees most of the time. i think buffing 730hp for the entire group is far better than 366ap (rank8, 305ap + 20%) for 1-2melees.

so you could spend the points in impr.demo or bloodcraze but i dont know this talent, always thought it was crap. anyone experiences with bloodcraze?

[bierbaum]

bloodcreaze is imo a laintime skill "I have a lot of Stamina and only kill People because i use more potions then any raider would ever use"

[dr_AllCOM3]

mace spec got nerfed :(

[Otzo]

bloodcreaze is imo a laintime skill "I have a lot of Stamina and only kill People because i use more potions then any raider would ever use"

Didnt he also have it too? :p

[bierbaum]

yeah that is why its a laintime skill :P

[Otzo]

thought you were just making fun of his hp potting and stamenchants so yeah had to ask. :p

[bierbaum]

Well i think Laintime plays real good but its sad to see that warriors can only rape something solo with trinkets/pots/alot of stamina etc (or wtfcritluck swordspec instagib)

[Soulless]

I'll go 40/21

[keboman]

I think 40/21 if not undead, 41/17/3 if undead.

Actually who knows.. 33/28 looks good too o_o. I don't think speculating builds in BC will work right now since things are changing so rapidly.

I gotta say I actually like the warrior changes so far. If I had piercing howl as 41/5/5 I'd say I was stronger overall this patch. Right now I feel about even damage wise or a little less, I can still stomp people but I just barely win instead of getting 2x the kills of the next guy ;)

[Soulless]

I think 40/21 if not undead, 41/17/3 if undead.[...]

Why do I need TM as an undead but not as any other race?

[Otzo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DhLp4IyQ-o

33/28/0 specced warrior in action. :P

edit: or well not 33/28/0 didnt see any second winds on the clip or im blind. ):

[The Arc]

That dude is fury.

[keboman]

Why do I need TM as an undead but not as any other race?

I don't need another fear break (deathwish) as undead.

[bierbaum]

yeah that guy is furry but i would take dw > tm anyday even as undead does sweet 20% MORE dmg are sweet .. the armor loss and 5% more dmg suck though

[Soulless]

I don't need another fear break (deathwish) as undead.



yeah that guy is furry but i would take dw > tm anyday even as undead does sweet 20% MORE dmg are sweet .. the armor loss and 5% more dmg suck though

^
|
That's my reason for going 40/21

[keboman]

TM AND Endless Rage > Deathwish easily

[Sar]

2h-fury anyone?

watch this: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=5397842071167718113&q=murth4

his specc is really horrible, but that dude is a good player and the video is very entertaining.

greetings,
Sar

[Otzo]

yeah hes a good player and i really find it hard time to use slam except when you intercept someone, not impressed with imp slam tbh.

[bierbaum]

Onyx Said "you wont need Endless Rage @ 70" so i trust him :P

[Soruss]

Onyx Said "you wont need Endless Rage @ 70" so i trust him :P

You don't need endless rage at 60.

[bierbaum]

Thats also true .. im just referring to Keboman :>

[Soruss]

Thats also true .. im just referring to Keboman :>

Keboman is a silly goose.

[Anduryondon]

i dont have always 3 guys who are hitting me and a healer that keeps me up, so i dont have enough rage (at 60)

[keboman]

Keboman is a silly goose.

Whatever. I'll own you with my 3 buttons and consumables.

[Fandom]

Hehe, you guys flame laintime for using lifegiving gem and insignia? Those mage/pallies/whatever use all their cooldowns too, pots and stuff like Loh.
Go Laintime. Barely 5k hp dps warrior ftl

[bierbaum]

nobody is flaming him .. he is a very good player but a lots of the fights are imo boring you can just like say "okay he will use a potion now ..." still missing mongoose etc imo

[Otzo]

yeah, Laintime is good but i didnt like his newest movie that much cuz it was pretty much him and his opponents using hp pots + trinkets (like that one fight he ran to get new trinkets up to beat that one paladin and such) it gets boring imo, but i liked the kiting of rogues so he could get his swing timer up to hit them before stunlock.

[keboman]

Arena is fun, even as a warrior.

Even without enrage I have 50% hp left fighting fury warriors even in naxx gear o_0 I'm not sure what's making the disparity.. 41/5/5.

After dicking around more I think I'm gunna go over to hunter.. much more fun to play now that warriors aren't loloverpowered.

[Sar]

one question about bloodfrendy. is that that debuff calculated "before" i crit my target the first time (like crusader) or works it on after my first crit?

greetings,
Sar

[Tarr]

Not sure Sar, I'd hope it becomes effective as you crit though heh.

I've been playing around a lot with the talents recently, and I have an interesting one that I've never seen anything quite like before. As I've mentioned, the 33/18 or 31/20 type builds atm are tough for me (I'm 31/20 right now for group pvp and working out well, nice fat 2k crits). But I still have a bit of trouble with my habit of wanting to get into zerker in the middle of my charge. Yes I know I don't have second wind, right now I have a few healers who I always play with and grind honor in av. I get focusfired and pop enrage a lot. Rage isn't a problem, and neither is healing. 5/5 enrage is better for me atm.

Anyway, I hate the idea of Charge > MS > Zerker
or
Charge > Hamstring / Battle Shout > Zerker, etc, etc.

That's too long to stay in battle for a Tauren without Death Wish.

I am used to Charge > Zerker and MS / Hamstring / Shout / whatever I needed to do. Been doing that for close to 2 years. Been 31/20 for just about my entire career. This charge habit is my big issue with 2.0.1 and TM being moved to Prot. It won't end when BC comes out due to all of the new temptations and imba builds possible builds for ms / flurry. Yes death wish will be nice for a fear break though, but I still like being in zerker asap off the charge for 3% crit, and intercept / pummel if needed immediately.

I feel like if I don't go zerker mid-charge I'm possibly screwing myself, and I feel like if I do go zerker mid-charge it's a waste of 11 rage, and 3% crit with a 33/18 or 31/20 build atm.

Instead I've come up with this.

0/2 imp charge
4/5 enrage
1/3 TM

Again, I don't need SW atm, but will be using it in BC for sure due to the stam increases.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0xdAio0ozZE0zm0LZz

Might be frustrating not being able to ever MS off the charge unless I crit (go axe spec) but I'll not be wasting rage and I will be securely immune to fear in zerker and have my 3% crit bonus immediately when I hit. If we had more time before the expansion I'd probably try this build out with my crit gear configuration in my CTProfile. But now I'm obviously thinking about how something like this would work in TBC.

Possibly
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LV0xbAioM0zbZE0zq0xRMZz

Doesn't seem nearly as good as what I've come up with for myself at current level 60 since we've got death wish for an extra fear break in any stance, and the 1 talent in TM seems like it would be so much better in flurry. Then you go back to thinking... hey might as well just go 2/2 imp charge and use death wish for battle stance fear breaks. Blow the rage quick and get in zerker. I guess it all depends on what I end up spending the majority of my time doing in the expansion: 10-15 man bgs where going in and out of combat is quick and often and charge > zerker is a very frequent occurance, or 2-5man arenas, where you're in combat almost the entire time and there's usually little to no point in switching to other stances once you're in zerker.

Alright looks like I've answered my own questions. Guess I'll finish my ramble. If you read this, I hope you found it interesting.

Personally, I'd probably just say Too long didn't read if it wasn't my post.

[Dunderdon]

I am used to Charge > Zerker and MS / Hamstring / Shout / whatever I needed to do. Been doing that for close to 2 years.

i guess many warrios have the same problem, i changed my style to only changing to zerk stance right away if a priest is close or if i charge towards a rogue.
i lose some rage right there, but better than being feared in battle stance or being stuck in battle stance while gouged :/

[Tarr]

i guess many warrios have the same problem, i changed my style to only changing to zerk stance right away if a priest is close or if i charge towards a rogue.
i lose some rage right there, but better than being feared in battle stance or being stuck in battle stance while gouged :/
Yeah that's what I'm trying to do with my current build. Trying to see if anyone has a better idea, but I don't think there's any other way to look at it after all the analysis I've done. Do you think it's still worth getting imp charge due to this?

[Dunderdon]

i dont think it's worth it :/

[keboman]

reroll undead before BC comes out

all your gear will be replaced on the way to 70 anyway

[Tarr]

nah, I'll probably end up going with 2 or 3/3 TM in the expansion anyway. Plus I like nigga stomp too much anyway. 5% bonus hp is going to be sweet in TBC. But I agree that UD racials are better for pvp. To be honest I did almost consider it at one point, but if I just can't bring myself to do it.

[keboman]

Well, if you want to do it now is the time. With BC coming out there's no point in doing anything in-game other than for fun.

It really is way way better than any other race, I feel like a gimp playing a warrior that isn't undead.

[Dunderdon]

i have been through so much with my troll warrior, i'd never consider rerolling to friggin ud.

everybody how has been playing his character through all the major instances from the beginning should feel the same way

[keboman]

I would PVP with a giant brown turd if it was better ;)

[Soulless]

i have been through so much with my troll warrior, i'd never consider rerolling to friggin ud.

everybody how has been playing his character through all the major instances from the beginning should feel the same way

If I could I'd reroll BE Warrior w/o hesitation.

[Tarr]

yeah aoe silence on a warrior woulda been sick.

[Soulless]

yeah aoe silence on a warrior woulda been sick.

Would kinda remove the "LEWLZ HONOR"-feeling casters get from seeing a lone warrior, so I see how blizz couldn't make that happen.

:|

[Dunderdon]

yeah whatever

troll warrior > you all ^^

[Otzo]

i have been through so much with my troll warrior, i'd never consider rerolling to friggin ud.

everybody how has been playing his character through all the major instances from the beginning should feel the same way

Aye same, tho im tempted to reskin my NE to BE but dunno how. ):

PS. but aint trolls in a way better in expansion? if xyno and uro are right about 3/5 flurry + haste trinkets, wouldt that mean troll berserking becomes a good talent for warriors too? :o

[Dunderdon]

i guess but it still lasts only 10 seconds :/

[keboman]

Trolls should get headhunting. 2% more damage to humanoids or something like that.

[Otzo]

hmm since resillience reduces the damage you do from critical strikes, would that still make sword spec procs better then poleaxe spec? :o /curious

http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/legendary-axe-id1859/

Any idea is that fake or real?

[Soruss]

hmm since resillience reduces the damage you do from critical strikes, would that still make sword spec procs better then poleaxe spec? :o /curious

http://www.wowguru.com/gallery/files/legendary-axe-id1859/

Any idea is that fake or real?

Immunity to fear? Fake.

[Tarr]

Immunity to fear? Fake.
I like the Chance on Hit: Blessing of Freedom + Stun immunity + 700 ap. That thing's way overpowered. It has to be fake. Either that or blizzard has gone insane. And 80 crit rating on an axe? rofl.


Also, why is it missing a durability rating?

[Otzo]

Also, why is it missing a durability rating?

Good point. :P But let me reask my question (c'mon Xyno and other beta players, answer! ): ) resillience does not only lesser the crits the opponent does to the person but it also reduces the damage, now this is kinda bad so im wondering would the sword spec proc be actually more benetial (spelling?) or will the poleaxe spec + 3/5 flurry and the haste trinkets be the best thing to go? :o

[bierbaum]

Fake, because Hellscreams Axes name is/was Growhowl or Growlhowl

[Tarr]

Good point. :P But let me reask my question (c'mon Xyno and other beta players, answer! ): ) resillience does not only lesser the crits the opponent does to the person but it also reduces the damage, now this is kinda bad so im wondering would the sword spec proc be actually more benetial (spelling?) or will the poleaxe spec + 3/5 flurry and the haste trinkets be the best thing to go? :o
I've been debating about the same thing, but here's the reasoning from my understanding.

Our crit is going to become lower because of resilience, and from leveling to 70. At level 60, 14 crit rating is 1% crit, and 70, 22 crit rating is 1% for example. Warriors can't kill things unless they crit, so we need to get it as high as possible. It also has a lot of pros to it that swords doesn't have. Better synergy with deep wounds, impale, blood frenzy, and those who go MS / Flurry.

Also wf only procs off white hits now, so it's not quite so bananas anymore where people would go sword spec, wf, hoj. But hoj and sword spec I believe are still white, so they still will proc wf more, but it's not insane like it used to be proccing off hamstrings and whatnot all the time. Also, on that note, hoj is nerfed and it's chance to proc is supposed to be 1% at level 70.

[Cast]

Hi

Just thought I'd mention, having done a few tests (I admit without a combat log with time stamps) I have seen WF proc of Heroic Strike atleast and am pretty sure after alot of messing about it also proc's off Whirlwind (I was WW'ing 4 mobs with a macro that turns my attack off instantly after doing the WW and although the attack didnt occur my combat log reads "You gain 1 extra attack through Windfury Totem" with nothing but the yellow dmg from WW in the log).

I to read the original patch notes from sometime ago that said WF would no longer proc off special attacks and I will admit it does "feel" different in pvp compared to how it used to so I am still abit unsure. Maybe it won't proc off instants or maybe its just how it was, a combat log with time stamps would probably solve the issue.

[mts]

Fake, because Hellscreams Axes name is/was Growhowl or Growlhowl

gorehowl

[RubiksCube]

Also, why is it missing a durability rating?

Because it's a linked item, there is never a durbaility rating on itemlinks

[Soruss]

Hi

Just thought I'd mention, having done a few tests (I admit without a combat log with time stamps) I have seen WF proc of Heroic Strike atleast and am pretty sure after alot of messing about it also proc's off Whirlwind (I was WW'ing 4 mobs with a macro that turns my attack off instantly after doing the WW and although the attack didnt occur my combat log reads "You gain 1 extra attack through Windfury Totem" with nothing but the yellow dmg from WW in the log).

I to read the original patch notes from sometime ago that said WF would no longer proc off special attacks and I will admit it does "feel" different in pvp compared to how it used to so I am still abit unsure. Maybe it won't proc off instants or maybe its just how it was, a combat log with time stamps would probably solve the issue.

Regardless of what the patch notes say, the fix was to make WF not proc off of instant attacks.

[Dunderdon]

yeah give us 10% crit!!!!!!
hope i can still win a duell against those nasty rats in arathi basin!

edit: oh shit, wrong board, thought this was the whine....eh warrior board

[Tarr]

Regardless of what the patch notes say, the fix was to make WF not proc off of instant attacks.
Oh cool, I didn't know that. So it doesn't work on sword spec and hoj but still works for HS and cleave.

[auren]

Oh cool, I didn't know that. So it doesn't work on sword spec and hoj but still works for HS and cleave.

Question: does windfury have a 40% chance of proccing on cleave when it hits 2 targets? i know it does even on the offtarget for the sake of overpower, maybe not the same though =/

[Ralrra]

The other big change to windfury is that the extra attacks were made yellow damage, so they no longer generate rage :/

[Anduryondon]

bullshit, windfury still generates rage. Read this rumor in every forum and thought gg rage generation, but well... its just not true ~~

[Margus]

they we're yellow on a earlier beta build but it seems that they changed it so gg

@auren
2x20% chance ^^

[Sar]

has anyone seen this video yet?
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=34889

definatlely worth the download! hands down, one of the best PVP-videos i´ve ever seen.

greetings,
Sar

[Otzo]

seems like lametime (err laintime) of german, but ill start downloading now. ^^

[Theldon]

has anyone seen this video yet?
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=34889

definatlely worth the download! hands down, one of the best PVP-videos i´ve ever seen.

greetings,
Sar

Awesome vid, i've only watched the first 10, but i'll watch more later. As a new warrior its awesome and inspiring watching that. I was starting to buy into the drivel that I read on the forum boards (WoW boards). I was even starting to regret my decision to roll human, and kinda wish for gnome instead. But this video is awesome to watch. I noticed they had blood craze which was awesome to see, and seems fairly unorthodox.

[Soruss]

Awesome vid, i've only watched the first 10, but i'll watch more later. As a new warrior its awesome and inspiring watching that. I was starting to buy into the drivel that I read on the forum boards (WoW boards). I was even starting to regret my decision to roll human, and kinda wish for gnome instead. But this video is awesome to watch. I noticed they had blood craze which was awesome to see, and seems fairly unorthodox.

I'm also tired of the drivel on the WoW boards. I hate all those whiners so much. "QQ MY GEAR DOESN'T SAVE ME ANYMORE? WHY AM I SO BAD?!?!"

Gnomes are awesome, escape artist is definitely the best racial.

[bierbaum]

WTS good enemys?

[keboman]

I think I'm gunna be something like this:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0502302134251002000120055000105005112 01000000200000000000000000000

Not sure about the point in imp. slam, but it seemed like it might be pretty good for PVE. I used it from 30-40 on my new warrior and it's been improved a lot. If you time it right you can get a white hit and slam concurrently and it's kinda fun in PVE. Maybe if I was needing to get rid of some rage I'd use it..

[Otzo]

Question: How good is the new anger managment? havent specced on it since they changed it but is it worth losing a point from 2-hander spec? :o

[keboman]

It's the same as it's always been. Not sure if it's worth giving up a point in 2h spec.

[Mikael]

Anger Management is great! I think it used to add to the bug of keeping you in combat longer. But, with the recent patch it was fixed. I sometimes find myself at 29 rage or 9 rage and after 1 tick I have enough to MS or intercept. I think its more worthwhile then the extra 1% dmg. Especially for PVP.. If you are doing PVE.. I dunno 1% goes a long way through in an instance.

Test it out.. I have a feeling once I hit 70 I am going to have to respec at least a few times to feel out what I really want. That is prolly a good time to give it a shot..

peace

[keboman]

Does snare resist still work against frost mage nukes? If the snare is resisted the whole thing is resisted?

[Margus]

i just pop'd 70 this week and after i finally got my lunar crescent i respec'd to 33/28 and it works very fine for me, though i miss imp tactical mastery a bit but flurry, death wish and second wind are just nice.

[Sypher]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pVMhdAioM0zbZE0zV0xRZc

my current build. I hurt people with this build. Throwing out 2.6k MS's with crap gear is amazing.

[Otzo]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TG0xdNbog0dbZVVzm0xRZc

I'm going this build with sword-spec. Now ofcourse people will have resillience gear, but the only real source for resillience gear is thru the arenas. They'll either be heavy on PvE gear, lacking much of the stat, or using the Honor set which would leave them with inferior stats in other areas. With how fast crit is climbing back up, by the time anyone gets some decent Resilience, I wouldn't be surprised if our crit chance would be higher then it was pre-TBC.

Besides if things go wrong for my situation, i can always pick a arena two-hander Axe, but still keep my lionheart masterblade because im very interested by its proc (AP whoring ftw :P) and always liked swords. :P

[keboman]

Is Anger Management bugged to keep me in combat longer? I'm nearly always the last person out of combat ;/

[Margus]

that's working as intedend, trust me :D

it's mostly because a crusader proc or an enrage proc seems to keep you longer in combat but blizz shortened the time at least a bit imho.

[Lopar]

I am using Thunder and am working to upgrade to Deep Thunder ASAP. I recently speced to Prot for Heroics and Karahzan but my PvP spec looks like 33/28/0 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0500502035201502000120055000104005212 03000000000000000000000000000
).

I love Imp Execute but there is just no room as it comes down to Imp Intercept or Execute. Also I passed on Imp Charge since I am not going with Tactical Mastery. It sucks saving only 10 rage on stance change but its bearble with a little practice.

Basically MS every cooldown. Whirlwind and Sweeping Strikes if multiple targets near and save Slam for Intercept, Mace Spec and Deep Thunder procs for the most part.

[Otzo]

slam still sucks since it still resets your swing timer, amirite? ):

[Theldon]

slam still sucks since it still resets your swing timer, amirite? ):

newp, welcome to 2.0.6

sword spec doesn't suck and it resets your swing timer

[Lopar]

It does reset your swing timer but I dont think it sucks at all. Swing/Slam with a total of 4.3 seconds between normal swings with Imp Slam or 5.3 seconds without assuming 3.8 speed weapon.

Anytime you have an opponent stuned you can basically change your auto attack to a 1.5 sec swing with bonus damage given sufficent rage and with a .5 cast time its really not that hard to pull off a single slam even if the target is moving. Also you could Swing/Slam/MS all within 1.5 seconds and your next swing is only 2.8 seconds away from occuring.

So its not totally amazing but its still pretty good especially if you're able to chain it on an unmoving target or work it in between normal swings and an instant ability or two.

I doubt they will ever allow Slam to not affect the swing timer but it would be nice if they let it pause instead of reset it and took it off the GCD. I can dream I guess...

[Anduryondon]

rofl, if slam had no reset timer you would have an execute at 100% Mobhealth in Raids (With 1,1k Max dmg in Charscreen Slam does more dmg). Its even now very strong for 2h Fury Spec in Raids.
Anyways, i doubt that you have enough Rage to use slam so often, because MS is more superior, at least in grp pvp.

[keboman]

I'm going to be 33/28 for PVP and respec if I need to tank heroic/hard stuff. Heroic is hard and 50g is an hour of farming.

I'm 65 in BC and I can tell I'm going to need deathwish, enrage and flurry to kill people in the small window I can get ;)

Improved Thunderclap is gold in PVP, I put demo and thunderclap on a melee assist train and it makes a MASSIVE difference. In PVE I charge and thunderclap on mobs and I go from killing 3-4 before bandaging/drinking to 6.

[Otzo]

hmm i dont think 3/3 imp thunderclap is worth the points you lose from stun resist tbh. :-/ maybe i should test more tho.

[keboman]

Ask a priest if they notice in PVP..

[Sar]

some nice changes on 2.0.7 PTR:

* The amount of haste granted by a point of haste rating has been increased by about 50%.

* Any effect which benefits the victim of a critical strike will now trigger even if resilience converted the attack from a critical strike to a normal strike; this applies to melee, ranged, and spell. The affected talents, abilities, and items are: "Eye for an Eye", "Blessed Resilience", "Enrage", "Martyrdom", "Blood Craze", "Eye of the Storm", and "Bonespike Shoulder".

full notes: http://www.worldofraids.com/v2/

how much % speed-increase is that now for kiss-of-spider or the abacus? and is it worth to wear them over the +crit hourglass i´m currently using for pvp besides my new insignia?

greetings,
Sar

[keboman]

Maybe I should get my friend's singing crystal axe.. 37% haste proc?

[keboman]

Kiss of the spider is 200 haste rating.. so 200*1.5/15.8=~19% haste

[bierbaum]

Yeah that axe would be real nice now .. but well in our auctionhouse its atm for 7k gold :\

[keboman]

I just got one for 1150 gold.. hopefully it wasn't a bad purchase ;/

[Theldon]

s
* Any effect which benefits the victim of a critical strike will now trigger even if resilience converted the attack from a critical strike to a normal strike; this applies to melee, ranged, and spell. The affected talents, abilities, and items are: "Eye for an Eye", "Blessed Resilience", "Enrage", "Martyrdom", "Blood Craze", "Eye of the Storm", and "Bonespike Shoulder".



Wow, that is huge!!!

[keboman]

Flurry makes more of a difference than I ever thought it would, by a huge amount, especially in pvp.

[Otzo]

33/28/0 for life, now.

[bierbaum]

Just wanted to ask how much def you would now need to get "critimmune" agaist lvl 73 first i thought 475 but i still got critted by a lvl 72 mob :\

[Rickert]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Defense

490, so 140 additional defense, which translates into roughly 330 defense rating.

[Margus]

that resilience change is really great cause you can go on full resilience and still pop enrage. Anyone knows if this also works vice versa and goes for flurry procs when resilience takes away the crit?

[keboman]

I'm really not sure if warriors will even be good for 5 mans. Shit like shadow priests do soooooooooooooo much damage. I can sit on them with recklessness on and still die before I can kill them, and that's with 1900ap.. they do monster damage.

Maybe I could win (with recklessness) if MS reduced vampiric embrace or something..

What else.. I get mangle crit for 2000+ (lol?)..

I ran into a 69 priest who did 2k mindblast and 1500 shadow:word death.. how do I beat that? lol

[Margus]

Shadow Priests are a bit situational imho, when you can charge them you'll mostly have the advantage. If they crit or get a blackout proc you're dead :>
If you popped Death Wish and/or Recklessness you just die even faster...

[keboman]

How is Mind blast then SWD minimum 5k damage situational?

I'm MS flurry and I feel like a I do retarded monster damage and a priest will outdamage me when I'm in melee range, shees I do 1200 auto attack crits with a 2.8 attack speed.

[Margus]

situational = hope you can kill him before he gets a blackout proc or can cast something while shielded.

If you can pummel him and don't get feared stunned you can kill them, if you don't get enough crits to cut through the shield get nekkid and /dance while watching his nice Mindflay ticks.

When he see you, you usually got no chance, PW:S up and SW:P/VE/MB/MF rinse repeat 'till you die or throw SW: D with 1.5k non crit dmg to execute you :>

[bierbaum]

I'm really not sure if warriors will even be good for 5 mans. Shit like shadow priests do soooooooooooooo much damage. I can sit on them with recklessness on and still die before I can kill them, and that's with 1900ap.. they do monster damage.

Maybe I could win (with recklessness) if MS reduced vampiric embrace or something..

What else.. I get mangle crit for 2000+ (lol?)..

I ran into a 69 priest who did 2k mindblast and 1500 shadow:word death.. how do I beat that? lol


get 4 Private Healers!

[Theldon]

Shadow Priests are a bit situational imho

Bit sitational = all situations?

[Sypher]

I'm really not sure if warriors will even be good for 5 mans. Shit like shadow priests do soooooooooooooo much damage. I can sit on them with recklessness on and still die before I can kill them, and that's with 1900ap.. they do monster damage.

Maybe I could win (with recklessness) if MS reduced vampiric embrace or something..

What else.. I get mangle crit for 2000+ (lol?)..

I ran into a 69 priest who did 2k mindblast and 1500 shadow:word death.. how do I beat that? lol

if warriors only MS'd for 300 they would still be worth it in 5 mans. That debuff is 100% necessary.

[Otzo]

15% stun resist vs. 2/2 imp charge + 3/3 imp tc, discuss!

[Qlimax]

Kiss of the spider is 200 haste rating.. so 200*1.5/15.8=~19% haste
How much is mongoose enchant?

Im 35/23/3 just like noktyn, though some talents moved around a bit.

[Margus]

15% stun resist vs. 2/2 imp charge + 3/3 imp tc, discuss!
for overall pvp I'd go for 5/5 iron will cause it's a 15% chance to save your Insignia CD and not get secksed by a succubus.

[bierbaum]

Well imp Tc +imp Demoshout is quite nice to to rape the Other melees imo

[keboman]

I gotta say.. after that last patch I feel like warriors are probably too strong again lol..

[Soruss]

I gotta say.. after that last patch I feel like warriors are probably too strong again lol..

Yeah, I'm a psychic. I said warriors would be imba again and look whats happening. Just wait until gear ramps up even more. I gotta get my warrior to 70 >_<

[keboman]

I just got http://thottbot.com/i19290

It works in Arena.. wondering if I should use it or give it to my bro (a priest)

[Otzo]

2x 45 stam trinkets would be better for a priest then that tbh. :P

[keboman]

If it procs you have a full run of spirit of redemption, then you can res, and if you die again you have spirit of redemption..

just reading about it.. sounds cool

[bierbaum]

Well I think it would be funny if it procced .. but 2x 45 Stamina would be greater imo

[Jayo]

stats (especially stam & armor) > procc chance imho

b2t:

i need some suggestions for an optimized pvp arena build with the singing crystal axe http://thottbot.com/i31318. right now i'm 33/28/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pV0xbAioM0zbZVx0A0xRM specced. with 5/5 flurry points and the axe procc, the attack speed is around 1.x afaik, so does it make sense to respecc to a 31/30/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pV0xbAioM0zZVx0VMxRV build. but then i really miss blood craze and 2nd wind..

so any suggestions and ideas?

[Otzo]

Once priests will have 400 resillience, i don't think your flurry will proic that much and you could spec back to 35/23/3 or whatever build you wanted, since you noted you missed those two talents. :-P

[Theldon]

i need some suggestions for an optimized pvp arena build with the singing crystal axe http://thottbot.com/i31318. right now i'm 33/28/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pV0xbAioM0zbZVx0A0xRM specced. with 5/5 flurry points and the axe procc, the attack speed is around 1.x afaik, so does it make sense to respecc to a 31/30/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=pV0xbAioM0zZVx0VMxRV build. but then i really miss blood craze and 2nd wind..

so any suggestions and ideas?

I'm currently 33/28/0 and I can't see myself going without 2nd wind. Its too good. I don't think you can give that talent up in PvP. Mind you, I don't have a SCA, but i have a few points in flurry as haste = win. Since you already have haste from the SCA, wouldn't putting points as 35/23/3 be worth it? I don't have Tac. Mastery right now, and I really miss it. Since you have a haste proc, maybe you can ditch flurry?

[The Arc]

If you're axe spec, I'd go 33/28. If you're mace (don't even say sword), I'd drop flurry for tm or blood frenzy or something else good that's not flurry.

[Jayo]

so i'm 33/28/0 specced, too. i don't really miss tac mastery. as you said for pvp 2nd wind is a must have i agree, so i won't drop it. i maxed out blood craze, commanding presence, imp. intercept & death whish. with 2 points in flurry (i'm still thinking to respecc and take 1 point from flurry and put it into piercing howl).
but haste = more dps = potentially more rage and that shit... hm.

[keboman]

35/26 is more damage than 33/28 ;/

[The Arc]

One point in flurry? I could see that being true, as sometimes flurry is made obsolete by cc.

[Margus]

After some arena experience I'd also go for TM or maybe even Imp. Spamstring instead of Flurry.
But Flurry is quite nice for pve so it's the same pve/pvp shit again :<

[keboman]

One point in flurry? I could see that being true, as sometimes flurry is made obsolete by cc.

I just meant the 4% from blood frenzy is more than 2 points in flurry if you really want flurry. Not sure if it's worth it for arenas over TM and Blood frenzy.

[Theldon]

If you're axe spec, I'd go 33/28. If you're mace (don't even say sword), I'd drop flurry for tm or blood frenzy or something else good that's not flurry.

I've noticed that a lot of players who are Thunder/Deep Thunder get slam to go with their mace spec. Probably because their weapon speed is slow, and to go with the mace stun proc.

Oh and Arc, pass a hi to Arkons for me. I always had fun killing him on Mugthol when I used to play there as I used to play with/against him in StarCraft.

[Theldon]

After some arena experience I'd also go for TM or maybe even Imp. Spamstring instead of Flurry.
But Flurry is quite nice for pve so it's the same pve/pvp shit again :<

Yeah, I take flurry for just that. Its a great PvE talent, it is nice in PvP aswell, as usually against most classes, I have a very limited window to burst dps in their face, and flurry helps me get more hits in =).

[The Arc]

Well, I have to spec prot this week for a bit to farm some nethers. When I spec back for pvp I'll give blood frenzy a try.

And I'll let Arkons know, Theldon. =D

[Otzo]

I seriously dislike the fact i need to be prot or bring a feral druid if i wanna do heroics. :-/

[Soruss]

I seriously dislike the fact i need to be prot or bring a feral druid if i wanna do heroics. :-/

Every heroic I've done has had a arms warrior tanking.

[Otzo]

hmm must be my lack of gear or healer's gear. :(

EDIT: does that include mechanar, shattered halls, and Black morass btw? :o

[Anduryondon]

The problem with arms is holding aggro, not the diminishing. Since thunderclap got a huge boost it makes finally fun tanking in heroics, but vs single targets you still see a difference between tank specced chars. But anyways, i tanked Mechanar with arms and it worked fine.

[Otzo]

fuck my gear sucks then. :(

[Theldon]

fuck my gear sucks then. :(

Are you pugging it? Usually if your group is somewhat competent, they will hold off on DPS'ing until you've made the pull and can do a thunderclap + demo shout. My rule is let me get 1 sunder on the "Skull" mob before dps'ing it. I usually don't have a problem. But when someone consistently goes out of their way to pick their down target, after a few repeat offenses, give them the boot.

Be warned, sometimes booting one very dumb player can result in the instance run ending, as other players will feel its unwarranted or because your not prot, will result in lashing out by the "dumb" player and their guildies in massive tells. WoW Armory doesn't help here. :(

[DarkS]

35/5/21 works well. I tanked stuff on Karazhan without problems and DPS/PvP isn't as bad as you can to think...

[Otzo]

Are you pugging it? Usually if your group is somewhat competent, they will hold off on DPS'ing until you've made the pull and can do a thunderclap + demo shout. My rule is let me get 1 sunder on the "Skull" mob before dps'ing it. I usually don't have a problem. But when someone consistently goes out of their way to pick their down target, after a few repeat offenses, give them the boot.

Be warned, sometimes booting one very dumb player can result in the instance run ending, as other players will feel its unwarranted or because your not prot, will result in lashing out by the "dumb" player and their guildies in massive tells. WoW Armory doesn't help here. :(

Ugh did 1 Mechanar heroic (first and only place ive tanked :P slave pens and others been with a feral druid) and i didnt have problem with aggro it was surviving the bosses like the robot one. :o( then again we only had a pala healer, guess hes heals were too slow, didnt see him spam FoL atleast.

EDIT: and everyone in my server who has/almost has Mooncleaver i know, always tell me to go prot for heroics but cba tbh but oh well gotta upgrade gear i guess. :P

[keboman]

Just spec back and forth, it's an hour of farming for a respec.

[Anduryondon]

Tell ppl like Droods and Shadowpriests they should specc heal if they force u to specc def. For the harder heroics take a pala or drood tank and do dps. Iam most of the time #1 in the dmg meter, so why should i specc def when i can do dmg.

[Margus]

Just spec back and forth, it's an hour of farming for a respec.
Well atm I need my farming time for getting exalted with aldor but after that it should be quite simple.


The problem with arms is holding aggro, not the diminishing. Since thunderclap got a huge boost it makes finally fun tanking in heroics, but vs single targets you still see a difference between tank specced chars. But anyways, i tanked Mechanar with arms and it worked fine.

Underbog Lords in Heroic Underbog are quite funny when you don't have Defiance. Our warlock got aggro every single knockback :>

[Dunderdon]

Well atm I need my farming time for getting exalted with aldor but after that it should be quite simple.



Underbog Lords in Heroic Underbog are quite funny when you don't have Defiance. Our warlock got aggro every single knockback :>

post less, play more

it's easy :P

[Anduryondon]

Underbog Lords in Heroic Underbog are quite funny when you don't have Defiance. Our warlock got aggro every single knockback :>
Did i say any different comparing to you? :P

[Theldon]

Well atm I need my farming time for getting exalted with aldor but after that it should be quite simple.


Not to stray too far off topic here, but whats the best place to grind rep for Aldor? So far I've just been grinding the green mobs in Bone Wastes while waiting for an instance group to form.

[bierbaum]

I farmed my Aldor from revered-Exhalted at Legion Hold .. but well ive been grinding rep when almost nobody was lvl 70 :P took me like 4 days @ 3 hours farming a day

[The Arc]

Legion Hold, late at night.

[Soruss]

Well atm I need my farming time for getting exalted with aldor but after that it should be quite simple.



Underbog Lords in Heroic Underbog are quite funny when you don't have Defiance. Our warlock got aggro every single knockback :>

Never seen aggro issues with a arms tank with underbog lords. It's the tank getting two shot if the 7k hits happen at the same time as he does a 6k knock back. But then again, I'm a pally so everyone except the tank has salvation. :\ You can also dps/heal at max range and have a shaman drop tranquil air if aggro is being an issue and you don't have an ezmode pve class available.

[keboman]

hmm.. with the right gear and a mongoose enchant a warrior could run around with 40% crit ;)

[Qlimax]

35/5/21 works well. I tanked stuff on Karazhan without problems and DPS/PvP isn't as bad as you can to think...
Link that build plz, i gotta respec it soon and i really cant be bothered figuring out where to put the points myself :P

[Anduryondon]

hmm.. with the right gear and a mongoose enchant a warrior could run around with 40% crit ;)
What are 40% crit if you miss 300 ap...

[DarkS]

Link that build plz, i gotta respec it soon and i really cant be bothered figuring out where to put the points myself :P
I'm currently using this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TVMcbAioM0dbZVZMytoh

[Qlimax]

I'm currently using this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TVMcbAioM0dbZVZMytoh
Nice, thanks. Ill prob put talents into imp bloodrage though, and 1 in imp taunt cause i already have 499 defense in my tank gear.

[DarkS]

Nice, thanks. Ill prob put talents into imp bloodrage though, and 1 in imp taunt cause i already have 499 defense in my tank gear.
I'm at 486 Def atm, as my tank gear improves I'll tweak the spec as necessary ;)

[Anduryondon]

well, you can take more sta gems and drop some def gems if you chose anticipation

[The Arc]

Curious as to what people who have tested both axe and mace spec (preferably deep thunder and mooncleaver) prefer. Mainly for arena. I have lunar atm, and I'm considering making the t1 mace and messing around with it before I upgrade to a t2 weapon, but I'm fairly certain the stun isn't worth losing over 6% crit. Since, in my experience, crits kill people, not stuns.

Thoughts?

[Jin]

speaking of respeccing blacksmith specialisations, how exactly does that work? I know you gotta talk to an npc in winterspring, but what's the catch? do you lose any skill in doing it, or just the ability to use spec weaps, just as planar edge and lunar crescent?

[Anduryondon]

you lose the spec only skills afaik.
@Arc: Well, stun can really kick ass if it proccs at certain times and it can help your healers if you assist the rogue on him etc. But it kinda luck based too. Another disadvantage is the skillable stun resist (and stun resist gem). Friend of mine was mace smith but is about thinking to go axe, because the 5% crit are really nice.

[Otzo]

speaking of respeccing blacksmith specialisations, how exactly does that work? I know you gotta talk to an npc in winterspring, but what's the catch? do you lose any skill in doing it, or just the ability to use spec weaps, just as planar edge and lunar crescent?

Yeah, and it costs about 100g or so.

[Snake]

Upcomming small Warrionerf:



Warriors


* "Charge", "Intercept" and "Intervene" now suppress all Slowing effects while charging the target.
* "Commanding Shout": This ability now increases your max health, but keeps your percentage health constant.
* "Death Wish" and "Enrage" effects no longer stack.
* "Execute": When used with "Sweeping Strikes", ranks 6 and 7 of this ability will no longer cause full damage to secondary targets who are not wounded.
* "Heroic Strike": The rank 10 tooltip now includes specific values for the bonus damage against dazed targets.
* "Improved Revenge": Reduced the delay on the stun landing from a successful "Revenge".
* "Insignia of the Alliance/Horde" and "Medallion of the Alliance/Horde" now removes "Immobilizing", "Stun" and "Polymorph" effects and no longer remove "Slowing" effects.
* "Revenge": This ability has been modified to do substantially more damage. The threat bonuses have been adjusted so that the threat generated remains relatively unchanged.
* "Shield Slam": Rank 3 of this ability no longer gets its cost reduced twice by the "Focused Rage" talent (Protection).
* "Spell Reflection" no longer has a global cooldown.
* "Victory Rush": The tooltip has been adjusted to calculate the damage it deals correctly, 45% of Attack Power, not 35%.
* "Flurry" (Fury) now increases attack speed by 5/10/15/20/25%, reduced from 10/15/20/25/30.


I think flurry isnt worth anymore the 5 points for MS-Build.

[Anduryondon]

yeah, but actually it seems that you can instant swap shield and instant cast spell reflect. Ill drop flurry and deathwish (if you use deathwish everyone can focus you, because enrage wont procc and you take 5%) and pick up tm and blood frenzy. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?0502032035251002002120005500105005002 00000000300000000000000000000

[Snake]

Matters which format of arena u go... in 2vs2 u need sometimes the 20% buff to kill a paladinhealer, u wont get hit by him criticaly...

[Otzo]

was thinking of 35/23/3 again now, 33/28/0 is more fun for now. :(

[Anduryondon]

Matters which format of arena u go... in 2vs2 u need sometimes the 20% buff to kill a paladinhealer, u wont get hit by him criticaly...
Eeh yeah sry, point of view is 5vs5

[Theldon]

I'm really happy with the spell reflect change. So many times on bosses it would have been a great spell to use the excess rage to simply 'avoid' on of their spells and not having it fit in my GCD aggro rotation.

[bierbaum]

Spellreflect also has a cool animation now!

[Anduryondon]

no more the tiny little shield in front of you? :(

[bierbaum]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1685/wowscrnshot041307180959zr1.jpg

[Snake]

Realy nice, now every fucking caster will see when i waste 25 rage as a defwarrior trying to make some pvp succes with that useless skill. That's the way how blizz makes deftanks useable in pvp...

Iam realy happy that i can respecc today to ms/fury with 12 primal nether on my bank, just waiting for some more eternium to take the 375 smithing skill and upgrade my baby.

[bierbaum]

mmh i think they nurf dw/enrage because of http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=38455 mad protdps!

[Anduryondon]

you cant go pvp with def. But well, with instant swap weapons, cast spellreflect the animation will alert casters sometime often too late, because spell is nearly finished etc.

[bierbaum]

well protpvp is just funpvp nothing real serious but i think i would delete my char if i would get 4,8k shieldslammed ;(

[Otzo]

Stupid question: was Blizz kind enough when making 28+crit rating scope that it effectsmelee one too? :( been wondering this myself

[bierbaum]

I dont know but i dont think .. i think it will stay like an bizznik