Conquest getting Onyxia at 22%...How they did it =\

[Trixx]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=825731&p=1&tmp=1#post825731


2) Onyxia is now immune to the taunt effec

In beta, she was completely immune to taunt. I suppose that must've made things a lot easier for them. Still a great job getting her to 22%, but with taunt, who knows how easy it was.

[Protagonist]

Short time board lurker, first time poster.

So in Beta, she was immune to taunt, but somewhere along the ling this was changed? And as you just posted, Blizzard corrected this with today's changes.

For the Alliance, would Paladins be the best tank now because of this change? There is a combo that puts you high on the hate list as a Paladin:

1. Judge Seal of Fury (Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 sec, causing Holy damage spells cast on that enemy to generate additional threat.)

2. Holy Shock (Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing 365 to 395 Holy damage.)

This is basically the Paladin taunt, and it works very well for regaining aggro in an instance.

What do you think? Would Paladins be viable for tanking Onxyia on the Alliance? I believe they would.

[Ghrym]

Kind of a moot point for Horde :?

[Protagonist]

Which point would that be?

[Ralrra]

The problem is holy shock is the top tier holy talent. To be honest I've yet to see a Pally that uses it on my server.

[Trixx]

We've had a paladin tank onyxia almost as well as a warrior. Not sure about it now.

[MrO]

Taunt isn't that big of a deal. In or not, if she turns and AE's someone's gonna get killed.

They are a raid guild, they know how to raid, thus they got her down to 22%.

[Elitist]

If the paladin does turn out to be a good tank against Onyxia then that would really suck for horde.

[MrO]

If the paladin does turn out to be a good tank against Onyxia then that would really suck for horde.

All a paladin can be is an option. In the end a Warrior will be the better choice.

[Protagonist]

But what does the Warrior have to boost his or her threat level with Onyxia, now that taunt is gone?

Paladins have Judgement of Fury + Holy Shock, which they can do every 30 seconds or so to keep boosting their threat.

One judgement at the beginning should be enough to hold her until she takes flight. Then the Paladin can jump back in once she returns to the ground, and Judge it again for extra hate.

[darkstryke]

Uh the same thing they always do? dps / sunder armor / revenge. You realize taunt only works to GET BACK at #1 spot on the agro list when you've lost it.

[Protagonist]

I see. It would be great to try two runs, one with a Warrior and one with a Paladin to see how they differ.

[Andvarion]

This wouldn't happen to be the same Conquest from EQ would it? o_O

If not, this is eerily coincidental. Conquest was the first guild in EQ to also get a certain tough dragon down to near-dead. Thing is, in EQ, they were exploiting. Sony caught them and banned the entire guild.

Maybe this is a different Conquest, or hopefully they've changed their ways...

[Eko]

Its the same on from EQ.

I dont think they ever got banned though..

[Tivoli]

We hold aggro fine without taunt on her, unfortunately we are locked out of both MC and Onyxia from adding people, so we can't attempt her again till this weekend, we have had her bug a few times now where she is below the ground, and we have to wait for a GM to reset her, usually takes a day for that to happen.

[Andvarion]

I'm pretty sure they did. I remember the whole controverisal thing. At first it was debatable whether or not they would be banned because obviously they could easily claim they didn't know they were exploiting, or weren't doing it intentionally. But Sony read the logs of their guild chat, and it turns out that they were indeed doing it on purpose, and planned it ahead of time and talked about exploiting it on several occasions.

I still don't really agree that they got BANNED, an entire guild after all. But some sort of punishment definately needed to be in order, and I guess banning is the only punishment there is in an MMORPG though heh.

[Eko]

http://conquest-guild.com/


I have read the site, I never saw anything about them getting banned. Oh well.. They play a PvE server anyway. ;\

[Nox]

This wouldn't happen to be the same Conquest from EQ would it? o_O

If not, this is eerily coincidental. Conquest was the first guild in EQ to also get a certain tough dragon down to near-dead. Thing is, in EQ, they were exploiting. Sony caught them and banned the entire guild.

Maybe this is a different Conquest, or hopefully they've changed their ways...

Okay just to stop the tide of gossip and innuendo -

if you are talking about conquest's encounter with the sleeper, they were very very heavy-handedly dealt with and disbanded if I recall over a fairly minor pathing issue with one of the warders.

GM's were watching, and came down on them about it.

If you really want to know, the difference between conquest and AL, and FOH which were all competing for the same encounters is that Conquest didn't have any Verant employees. That's why they got punished. Every raid guild in EQ 'exploited' because most of the end encounters had bugs that you either worked around or wiped out from - or simply didn't progress because of.

Broken doors, broken triggers, bad pathing etc.

The ones who got punished, were ones without verant insiders in the guild.

And that's about it.

[Andvarion]

Now THAT sounds more like rumor spreading than anything else. =p

Regardless... you weren't implying I was rumor spreading were you? Because it looks like you agreed with what I said, except gave the details that I forgot about.

So they were indeed banned right? I know I couldn't have dreamed this. Any other EQ oldies around who mght remember?

(not trying to start any arguments or anything. In fact my memory sucks heh, so I could be horridly wrong... I just happen to have a REALLY strong feeling that I remember this correctly)

=)

[Guts]

No, Nox is right 100%.

You would be surprised how many sony employees actually play the game, and are in top end guilds.

To not take this as being true, is being naive.

Karate explosion.

[Static]

It doesn't count until its done on a PvP server..

[Nox]

Now THAT sounds more like rumor spreading than anything else. =p



=)

You'll just have to trust my sources on this. I'll PM you if you want names.

[Firecrak]

Hi. Kali Compton.

Nuff said.


Tiv, whats the timer on a full onyxia unlock? 3 days?

I was also under the impression the instance did not reset if she herself was not killed. If this is true, why would you be locked out? Sorry, maybe I misread your post.

[MrO]

Raid instance timers have not been clearly explained to us on how they are working now and how they are intended to work.

Now this is my assumption:

- You zone in now and engage a mob, this will set you on a 5 day timer for Onyxia and 7 day timer for Molten Core. You are locked in with the people who was in your raid group at the time of the tap.
- What I assume they want to have happen is you zone in and kill a mini boss in a zone, this will set you on a 5 day timer for Onyxia and 7 day timer for Molten Core before you can try again.

[Andvarion]

I believe you Nox. :)

It wasn't the fact that Sony/Verant employees played in uber guilds that i doubted... it was the supposed fact that they are the sole reason they didn't bust said guilds for exploiting. That's what sounds a bit fishy to me. But I admit I have no way of knowing, so I'll take your word for it.

Regardless of reasons or employees or whatever, I STILL swear up and down that they were banned. =p I've gotta look up my old EQ buds and see what they say.

[Halmir]

Tivoli - Death and Taxes had the same problem on shattered Hand, when i petitioned a GM they told me this...

"You can remedy this problem by having the group/raid leader invite people while he/she is in the instance. Were currently aware about this issue, and are working on a fix. "

We havent gone back to MC for about 2 weeks, but just forwarding what they told us incase you guys werent aware.

I thought Onyxia would be kinda easy, im curious to know hy blizzard is making her harder with these stealth patches. Were attempting onyxia tomorrow with 30, im sure we will get destroyed when she takes off and the eggs hatch. Seems to me its more useful to farm several bosses in MC :\

[Dots]

The old Conmquest incident was about abusing a pathing bug. They positioned clerics under the bridge so they would never get hit as Ventani the Warder couldn't path down there. (I think is was Ventani, the rest was easy anyways) Bugs have been used all the time though, I never really understood this matter.
I believe the guild got disbanded and only a few people got banned, not sure though. That was a long time ago...
They might have just reformed later if they actually got banned. After all, SOE always keeps changing policies (we will never allow cross server transfers!)

[Gorlab]

Its the same on from EQ.

I dont think they ever got banned though..

They were exploiting the 4th warder in Sleeper's Tomb, hiding under the bridge to avoid its AoE. The guild was disbanded and several members banned yes.

[Andvarion]

Ah good, I knew I wasn't completely insane heh.

I'm not suggesting they are exploiting against Onyxia, I just think it's a neat coincidence. I too didn't really agree with that whole ordeal. Hiding under a bridge seems like a weird thing to classify as an exploit. Stupid game designers.

[Morlow]

Hiding under a bridge seems like a weird thing to classify as an exploit. Stupid game designers.

My thoughts exactly. Why would they put the bridge there and then call it an exploit?

[Envie]

Hiding under a bridge seems like a weird thing to classify as an exploit. Stupid game designers.

My thoughts exactly. Why would they put the bridge there and then call it an exploit?

It's just like in beta when players were using levitate and going down the lava to circumvent parts of BRD I believe. There were ramps leading into the lava, and small rock islands with elementals on them... so players assumed you were allowed to go that route as an alternative part of the encounter. This was then, all of a sudden, a 'no-no' by the Devs and GMs policed it to prevent testers (who were 'testing' afterall) from going that way until they could redesign it and make the lava much more deadly.

So you tell me, is that a tactic, or an exploit? It's not an exploit until someone defines it as such. If the designers don't say anything and players aren't told not to... how can it be exploiting? Seems to me it's creative tactics until someone decides it's a bug or an exploit. Pathing bugs are sometimes hard to define... not as clearly obvious as say duping bugs or spell bugs.

-

[famasfilms]

all the idiots claiming conquests achievements wont count because they're on a pve server are pretty dumb.

a) its really not that difficult to level up on a pvp server compared to pve, if anything the difference is miniscule.

b) conquest have played on pvp servers in the past and dominated, so be glad theyre not on archimonde ;)

[Bovinity]

Yeah, dominated DAoC maybe.

Yay.

[Trixx]

all the idiots claiming conquests achievements wont count because they're on a pve server are pretty dumb.

a) its really not that difficult to level up on a pvp server compared to pve, if anything the difference is miniscule.

b) conquest have played on pvp servers in the past and dominated, so be glad theyre not on archimonde ;)

No, not really...Do you play on a pvp server?

[Ghetto]

i play on a PvP server and I agree with famas, leveling up was a breeze

i'm sure it's harder now with tons of bored level 60s, but when i was leveling up there certainly much ganking hindering my process

[boris]

I fail to see why PvE makes it not count, and I play PvP.

[Khalaio]

the only differance i see is alliance vs horde

since paladins are made to go the distance, they may be a bit better vs a shaman in that encounter

[Nox]

Well here's another example of 'exploiting' vs. just finding a way to beat the encounter.

I believe it was TOV, might have been a diff dungeon - anyhow, the beta version of this dungeon was only tested by the GM's summoning dragons to us and us (the test server raid guilds) fighting them. When we tried to do the dungeon after that, we found that one of the doors which was scripted to open after a kill, didn't actually work. The only way to open it was to fear a mob through it, which would cause the doors to open and then everyone would run through.

Was that an exploit? FoH contacted me and asked me how we got the door open, and I said we never found a legit way to do it - they ended up using fear, the same way we did until verant fixed it and then changed mobs not opening doors with fear.

The thing to remember - is that more often than not, internally tested content like we're going to run into with wow and ran into with EQ - has lots of quest bugs, trigger bugs, pathing problems -

When we are pioneering new content, like conquest and the sleeper's tomb, or nurfed will be or conquest in wow, it's not like doing the dungeon after 100 other people have done it and posted it on a website. When a whole guild has never beaten an encounter, and they are looking for any way for a leg up - if that encounter has bugs that permit it to be beaten those bugs WILL be found by players. Blaming players for the bugs is Verant style namecalling and player hostility.

If they would just test the content, this wouldn't ever be an issue.

[Naryan]

anyone got that picture of Onyxia when she's at 22% hp?
I've seen it before, but I wanna show it to a friend and I can't find it anywhere. Thanks

[Ei]

http://www.conquest.teamgbu.com/ony25.jpg

[Eko]

I never said that it dosen't count on a pve server..

[Zuka]

This thread looks more like "OMG someone surpassed my guild now let me make a completely stupid excuse to reduce the 'wow' factor".

[Nox]

This thread looks more like "OMG someone surpassed my guild now let me make a completely stupid excuse to reduce the 'wow' factor".

Just a disclaimer for anyone else who might be unclear - none of the posters making disparaging remarks about any competing guilds are members of Nurfed.

For my part, I applaud their accomplishment and wish them all due success..

[Krissam]

omg, i knew those cracks in the floor had a reason do be there :)

[Lodekim]

We hold aggro fine without taunt on her, unfortunately we are locked out of both MC and Onyxia from adding people, so we can't attempt her again till this weekend, we have had her bug a few times now where she is below the ground, and we have to wait for a GM to reset her, usually takes a day for that to happen.

Any chance you guys are recording your attempts? I'd like to see a video of Nurfed beating Onyxia. Horde on my server I think is quite far from getting it done, I dont' think we even have 40 people with the key yet.

Anyway, I was also wondering how people managed to get past the AoE immolate she does when she takes flight, and I know I won't be in the first group that beats her, but I'd like to see a video.

[Zuka]

This thread looks more like "OMG someone surpassed my guild now let me make a completely stupid excuse to reduce the 'wow' factor".

Just a disclaimer for anyone else who might be unclear - none of the posters making disparaging remarks about any competing guilds are members of Nurfed.

For my part, I applaud their accomplishment and wish them all due success..

I know that, thread creator is a member of Dogma, what else can I expect.

[MrO]

This thread looks more like "OMG someone surpassed my guild now let me make a completely stupid excuse to reduce the 'wow' factor".

Basically what we did in beta was common practice. Dunno why Trix even made this post as I doubt taunt would even be useful here. One turn of her can wipe half a group if people aren't prepared. Taunting it back onto the main tank would still be too late.

Conquest has gotten her to 19% or so now. She will probably go down soon.

So yes your quote above is probably what was trying to be achieved.

[Straem]

all the idiots claiming conquests achievements wont count because they're on a pve server are pretty dumb.

a) its really not that difficult to level up on a pvp server compared to pve, if anything the difference is miniscule.

b) conquest have played on pvp servers in the past and dominated, so be glad theyre not on archimonde ;)

No, not really...Do you play on a pvp server?


A Guild like conquest would level up just as easily on a pvp server. They have set groups of 5 to run. You only have trouble leveling on a pvp when you dont have friends to back you up. In a group of steady 5 its no different imo