Warrior Holding Aggro on 5+ Elite Pulls, and Misc Tanking ?s

[Ratama]

I can't find the post, but one of you Nurfed guys mentioned that your Warriors are able to easily hold aggro on large pulls. Could someone who plays a 60 Warrior describe a little bit about your aggro management style in instances?

I'm mainly curious about:

- Is it advantageous for the tank to be in Defensive stance (I assume so)
- Are there situations on larger pulls where it's better to be in another stance to hold the aggro?
- If PvP builds were not a factor, do you think a Protection spec'd Warrior would be the most effective at holding aggro? Or just most effective at damage mitigation?
- Can you hold aggro on a single target against a Rogue going full throttle with a decent string of crits?
- What's the quickest way to get aggro on a single target back if you lose it (assuming taunt timer is off or Taunt is resisted)
- What's the quickest way to get aggro on multiple targets if AE taunt is on timer still?
- Can you do all of these things for aggro at level 50 as well as you can at 60? (IMO, the 50+ instances and fights are wereh tanking starts to become critical).

Sorry to ask a ton of questions, but Aggro management is one of my main hobbies, but I decided to level a Rogue before my Warrior in WoW because of the Warrior problems. I'm about to start leveling up my 20 Warrior in earnest now that my Rogue is about to hit 60, and since I play on an RP server, my build is going to be for pure tanking power in high-end instance/raid situations.

[Straem]

I nominate Sintor to Answer this post, since he is most likely to be bored at work!

[Dinian]

Level 45 Arms/Fury spec warrior here.

Defensive stance for me while tanking and trying to keep agro particularly on multiple mobs is essential. The threat advantage is noticable on everything you do.

When I'm in instances and we get a multi pull what I do is use demoralizing shout and switch targets alot to "spread the taunt" around using sunder armor. Demo shout is great with sheepers as well since it causes zero damage.

My latest theory is that any damaging attack in Defensive stance has a significant threat bonus so I've been experimenting with using Cleave in Defensive stance to good effect. Careful with sheep doing this.

[Shamiko]

Level 58 here, but I havent had to many instances where i needed to hold zerg aggro, but i've held 4-5 mobs before many times, usually for zerg mobs, priest/mages take care of those.

If pulling i see alot of tanks use their rage building skill first, if i'm going in first I charge for the rage.

First thing I do is demoralize(this pulls all mobs on you right off the bat), if a poly or sap is not in my way i'll cleave, then whatever mobs that are NOT CC'd i sunder armor each one, and then rend each one, then I focus fire whatever mob the rogue/mage/whatever is wailing on.

I'll even clap if i'm not in the range of a sheep or sapped target. Basically try to get as many debuffs/effects on the mobs as you can.

A smart priest will use fade, if your priest isnt using fade their making it a whole lot harder for you cause then you gotta run around spamming taunt/disarm.

You also gotta realize you dont HAVE to tank every mob all the time, in fact its not wise at all. Let the shaman/rogue tank one for awhile while your clearing and hold other mobs then taunt it off the rogue/shaman and sunder it/finish it. If the mob is real low on life and is going after a mage or priest, just let it, they'll finish it off and you focus on keeping aggro on the mobs that still have alot of life.

When it comes to boss fights or mobs that do SERIOUS dmg you gotta be all over them, maybe tell your group to not unleash on it till you've gotten it good and pissed off at you first.

That's what I do, and no ones complained about my tanking yet.

Edit: I'm in battle stance most of the time, cept when i want to taunt/disarm, then i switch to defense real fast. If i want to interrupt i switch to fury real quick and pummel, AND IF i need to disrupt again i'll switch to defense, click my shield, hit bash, then hit my 2h without missing a beat, then back to battle stance.

[self]

-If you look at the spell description for "Battle Stance" on wow.allakhazam.com you'll notice that Battle Stance has a 10% threat penalty coded into it. (I haven't checked Beserker Stance.) Therefore there is a coded advantage to Def. Stance over Battle, even without talents.

-On large pulls, especially where there are non-elite mobs, I'll switch in 2h, change to Beserker for a whirlwind, then change back (and optionally go back to shield).

-Tough call, I'm Arms/Fury Spec so I don't have a lot of experience with Defensive Talents, in theorycraft I'd say that the Prot. tree would marginally help. I have little to no trouble keeping agro on a single mob (assuming it doesn't knockback, or do something else to make it lose agro). Not worth the trade offs to me, but that's me.

-I haven't had much trouble with this, but I don't know if that's because the Rogues are holding back or not. Its come up enough recently that I want to try it out though. Shaman, warlock, hunter, priest, mage is no problem.

-Sunder-spam, that said, its much harder to "get agro" than "keep agro." Mocking Blow is good if you're desparate.

-Again, ideally you want to be "keeping agro" not getting agro, so if you can get the initial agro with demoralizing shout, then apply sunder armor as needed, you're much better off. Whirlwind is a good option early in the fight, but its agro doesn't have much staying power, also its limited to 4. T-clap is slightly worse off than Whirlwind.

-You have all the tools at level 50, and I can't see the diminished talents being a factor (for arms/fury). From memory, I'd say I was just-as effective, if not more effective in Temple as I've been in Strath/BRS.

One of the keys to keeping agro is a good group though. Keeping agro off a healer who is casting heal spells is fairly trivial, keeping agro off a shaman who didn't assist you and is attacking one of the "off-mobs" ... isn't?

[Shamiko]

Protection is definetly the way to go if you want to be a instance running spam bot, but sucks for pvp.

If your guild wants to pay the respec bill, and you know you'll be pve'ing mainly for awhile, go ahead and respec it.

For a raid group, i say stay in defensive and use a 1h/shield. Even if your fury/arms specced. In a raid everyone else will be doing the dmg, you just need to get aggro, more stats/ac from the shield + blocking will help you do your job better than not. In 5 man, i say use 2hand but i havent had much experience with LATE Game 5 man instance situations so...

Thats interesting about the 10% penalty, i've never had any problems holding aggro in battle stance 90% of the time.

I try to stay out of fury since i take more dmg, but switch to it real fast occasionally, I'm not tight with any priests so I usually dont know if they can handle that much healing and their isnt much of a reason I should stay in fury.

[Inconsiderable]

"- Is it advantageous for the tank to be in Defensive stance (I assume so)"

-10% dmg received, yes

"- Are there situations on larger pulls where it's better to be in another stance to hold the aggro?"

You need to switch to use whirlwind for example, but then change back. Vs Fear you want Berserk.

"- If PvP builds were not a factor, do you think a Protection spec'd Warrior would be the most effective at holding aggro? Or just most effective at damage mitigation?"

Take a look at talents, YES he will hold better.

"- Can you hold aggro on a single target against a Rogue going full throttle with a decent string of crits?"

Not really, but u can taunt and pray.

"- What's the quickest way to get aggro on a single target back if you lose it (assuming taunt timer is off or Taunt is resisted)"

mocking blow.

"- What's the quickest way to get aggro on multiple targets if AE taunt is on timer still?"

spamm impr demo shout like no tomorrow

"- Can you do all of these things for aggro at level 50 as well as you can at 60? (IMO, the 50+ instances and fights are wereh tanking starts to become critical)."

I think yes.

[Firecrak]

The problem with trying to hold agro on multi mobs is multi fold.

A. if your priest or mage overnukes/heals, you are toast. 1 Rogue over critting on 1 mob might not be as bad, but then the above post becomes valid, as the healer goes into overdrive to save thier ass. This is assuming you are fighting mobs outside your comfort zone. By comfort zone I consider things at least 2 levels above you, and more than 3 per pull.

B. With the rework of taunt and agro code, it seems like Blizzard intends warriors to hold agro on mutliple mobs with damage...in defense stance while wielding a sword and shield. Tanking in zerk stance is definatly not practical, and battle has very few options IMO.

C. Switching stances, even with tac mastery maxed is a big BIG pain.

Some tools you can use:

Fury builds, with zerk rage and whirlwind. I have done this on my warrior, and seems to work ok. You have to make sure to pull, make sure the priest doesn't get agro straight off the bat, hit zerk rage, demo and hope whirlwind procs a crit or 2.

Arms builds...just do the standard sunder sunder crap.

Haven't met a def shield monkey yet, so I can't comment. While some of the talents work on paper, in practicality they suck ass. Other than Toughness and maybe taunt reuse timer, theres not much going there. Block chance is nice, and Concussive is a great saver. Imp Revenge is a great tool. The rest are pure shit.