Current Druid Builds (Updated Nov 1, 2005)

[Scorch]

REVISED Nov 1/2005:
Updated to 1.8.1 talents

1.8 talent changes were the biggest overhaul to the Druid class since... they were put into the game in beta. I think, despite it being 10 months late, they did a good job. Cross-Form talents like Heart of the Wild and Moonglow are definitely the way to go. All 3 talent trees themselves seem to have become fairly viable... it's now the underlying spells themselves (especially Wrath/Starfire/Moonfire) that have become a bottleneck in terms of scalability in the future, which is why I think Balance is the weakest of the 3 trees and not a build I'd really continue to recommend.

That said, this is just from my in-game experience, I'm at the stage where I'm MC/BWL geared, and I'm fighting against other MC/BWL geared people. Moonfire spam scales badly at this point. But if you're just nearing or just reached lvl 60, fighting against other blue-geared people, then Moonfire Spam is still a good spec.

I still think Feral forms won't scale effectively in the future, but (for now) feral's more or less caught up in terms of damage, so take advantage. Seize the day. Carpe diem.


Feral Spec
30 Feral/21 Restoration

- This is my spec right now. It's basically Restoration-lite, but as long as you remember you have heal spells you should do okay... it's imo the toughest spec to play in the game as it requires you to keep track of everything in the game including: aggro control, combo points, and party member HP/Debuffs, etc., since you (should be) both DPSing and healing at once. It can be a bit of an overload.

- Leader of the Pack - This isn't actually all that great for a 7th tier talent, but getting people to accept a Feral Druid into their group is honestly half the battle, and this eases things considerably with your groupmates. However, if you're in a raid and the leader won't accept a Feral Druid and/or won't bother putting you in a melee group so they benefit from your aura, there's no point. So your mileage may vary.

- Feral Aggression vs. Thick Armour. There's better talents down the Feral tree, so you're usually picking one of the 2 to go with. Running the numbers, at 7500 AC (a rough number for a MC-geared Druid Bear), a 10% increase from Thick Armour (to 8250 AC) would be a 2.3% increase in damage mitigation. That's not insignificant, but 5 points in Ferocious Bite will net you at increase of 116-123 in damage for a 5 pt Bite (before factoring AC reduction + remaining energy points bonus). That seems more worth it to me.

- Omen of Clarity. With 30 points in Feral you only have room for either Balance (Omen) or Restoration (NS), not both, and it comes down to your playing style. But Omen is a bit of a red herring really because it's still the same lousy buff as before (the proc rate must be like 2 or 3% or something, goes off once every 2nd or 3rd fight, just horrible), and you have to shift out to cast it, which is just annoying. It's actually the preceding two talents leading to Omen (Natural Shapeshifter, Natural Weapons) that make this a contest. Natural Weapons' +10% dmg looks like it's applied after everything else, which makes it quite good, and if you were going for all out DPS you'd definitely go for that. And on paper, again, Omen looks really good.

...But I had Shapeshifter/Omen/Weapons for 2 weeks and I hated it. Giving up too much (from Restoration), for too little (from Omen). Good for grinding but too inconsistent and annoying to cast.

- 31/5/15 or 30/0/21?

The equation goes something like:

(Nature's Grasp) + (Leader of the Pack) < or > (Nature's Swiftness)

Nature's Grasp is just invaluable if you know how to use it. Cast it before a fight and you can disable a meleer right off the bat. Works great on Hunter pets too. But root is dispellable, which puts Horde at a disadvantage.

But it's strictly PvP only, whereas NS is PvP/PvE. I happen to think NS is a bit overrated sometimes, if you aren't lazy, if you pay attention and pre-cast your heals, you head off 90% of the situations where you use NS. But it's still an amazing talent obviously, a lot of people can't live without NS.

So imo, if you:

Have good gear: 31/5/15
Have shitty gear: 30/0/21
Are Horde: 30/0/21
Are Alliance: 31/5/15
Are still leveling: Get Omen of Clarity instead of the healing talents.



Feral Combat Talents - 30 points

# Ferocity - rank 5/5
# Feral Aggression - rank 5/5
# Brutal Impact - rank 2/2
# Feline Swiftness - rank 2/2
# Feral Charge - rank 1/1
# Sharpened Claws - rank 3/3
# Predatory Strikes - rank 3/3
# Blood Frenzy - rank 2/2
# Savage Fury - rank 2/2
# Heart of the Wild - rank 5/5

Restoration Talents - 21 points

# Furor - rank 5/5
# Improved Healing Touch - rank 5/5
# Nature's Focus - rank 5/5
# Improved Enrage - rank 1/2
# Insect Swarm - rank 1/1
# Improved Rejuvenation - rank 3/3
# Nature's Swiftness - rank 1/1


Primary Healer Build
35 Restoration/5 Balance/11 Feral

- This is my tentative version of the good ol' 3-tree Restoration spec... it was fairly hard to settle on this, there's lots of ways to do it. I happen to love the ambiguity, it's usually a sign they did a good job. This one is just my preference though. Full Restoration spec was actually nerfed slightly in 1.8 IMHO, and the playing field was tilted towards the lower tier talents in the tree.

- The weakest link is clearly Tranquil Spirit. It's just the old Improved Healing Touch except moved down 2 tiers. Too bad it's a prereq for Innervate, so you're forced to get it. Oh well.

- Thick Armor vs. Feral Aggression. Again. But this time the theory is, as a Restoration specced Druid you're shifting into Bear because you're getting trained on by Warriors/Rogues and trying to mitigate damage until someone can heal you, so you're not so concerned about doing damage. So get Thick Armor instead.

- They also nerfed the old build slightly by moving Nature's Reach in Balance from 2nd to 3rd tier. It's not a problem for Balance/Feral speccers to get, but you can no longer have Innervate + Feral Charge + Nature's Reach. :( Give up Nature's Reach out of those 3.

- 1 pt in Improved Enrage for instant Feral Charges.

- Insect Swarm for a 2nd option in fast-paced PvP that doesn't start with "Moon" and end with "fire". Plus it makes a crazy green glow so if you spam lvl 1 of it on someone, they generally panic and start dispelling like crazy.

- Gift of Nature vs. Reflection vs. Improved Regrowth. You only really have enough talent points to get 2 out of those 3 unless you feel like dumping like 40 pts into Restoration. Reflection I think is the weakest of the 3, because the talent is based completely off your spirit. This isn't necessarily bad in itself... but I mean, I've always said Druids were the last spirit class, but it's really disappointing to see +mana/tick equipment's taking over and spirit being phased out. My spirit dropped by like 60 points in the transition from blue gear to MC/BWL-gear. I don't know about everyone else but my spirit is just starting to peak over 300 again. It was up to 340 or so 8 months ago before MC. That's sad.



Balance Talents - 5 points

# Nature's Grasp - rank 1/1
# Improved Nature's Grasp - rank 4/4

Feral Combat Talents - 11 points

# Ferocity - rank 5/5
# Thick Armor - rank 3/5
# Brutal Impact - rank 2/2
# Feral Charge - rank 1/1

Restoration Talents - 35 points

# Improved Mark of the Wild - rank 5/5
# Improved Healing Touch - rank 5/5
# Nature's Focus - rank 5/5
# Improved Enrage - rank 1/2
# Insect Swarm - rank 1/1
# Tranquil Spirit - rank 5/5
# Improved Rejuvenation - rank 3/3
# Nature's Swiftness - rank 1/1
# Gift of Nature - rank 3/5
# Improved Regrowth - rank 5/5
# Innervate - rank 1/1


Anyway there's lots of ways to do these builds now, which I think above all is the best change, really.

[moto]

I find Scorch is most effective in catform ( when pouncing of course ).

[KJunk]

I agree almost entirely with what you've outlined.

My only qualm.. I don't really see a reason behind putting anything more then 11 points or so in Balance. In group PvP I rarely cast moonfire. My mana seems much better used with Roots, Faerie Fires and Heals.

Also, I think subtelty is a very important skill and even has PvP use. There have been many attacks on cities where my healing has been impaired because my aggro has attracted guards. I can only imagine that Subtlety would help this.

Also, the official forums are a cesspool of misinformation and idiocy. The druid class I play must be completely different then the one they play, because I'm still primary healer for 50+ instances and I've pulled off stuff that I've seen no other class even touch on.

This is definitely the most misunderstood class.

[Scorch]

My only qualm.. I don't really see a reason behind putting anything more then 11 points or so in Balance. In group PvP I rarely cast moonfire. My mana seems much better used with Roots, Faerie Fires and Heals.

I had the same thing you did for about 15 levels, but I relented and got Moonglow/Improved Moonfire just because on a PvP server I get caught out in the open quite a lot, and I won't always be in a group. 10 pts in Moonfire gives me a better edge against Mages in particular. If I was in a group all the time I wouldn't put any points into Moonfire either.

[Firecrak]

WoW.....a druid that knows what the fuck he is on about. I've seen druids do some amazing shit, some, that even priests can't pull off in instances... people need to realise its a caster, with potential for utility in forms, not the other way round.

[Andeh]

My friend and I are going to start our first set of alts within a week when our mains hit 50, and the plan was for him to make a mage, and myself a druid. We basically constantly group when we play, so I was wondering whether you think I'm better off focusing on healing from the start, or feral form until high levels and then respec'ing. My first instinct is to focus on feral for the early levels until his mage isn't incredibly fragile and doesn't necessarily need a meat shield constantly. Once he's got some more of his AOE spells and big nukes, then there's no way I'll be able to draw them off in bear/cat form, so will just focus on healing his ass.

BTW, I currently play a rogue so I should be able to have no problems playing in cat form... its the healer part that will be "interesting."

[Scorch]

I'd go with what I outlined above, just a Cat build till 45 or so. Questing and grinding is about DPS and survivability, and a Mage and a Rogue/Healer duo would be ideal for that. Bear form is sufficient to keep aggro off a mage if played right, but Bear tends to be far more self-sufficient than Cat and doesn't need talents to make work. In fact the only worthwhile Bear talent, Feral Charge, is bugged and not really worth getting at the moment. A non-restoration build is sufficient for healing everything pretty much, except in late game instances. Since you'll just be leveling it's not really a concern.

Cat form's good till 45-50, when the damage drops completely off the radar, because the claw damage is fixed and doesn't scale properly like a dagger or a sword would on a rogue. On my lvl 60 Druid, my Cat form pulls around 45 DPS from the front and 60 DPS from the back. It's a joke in other words. That's without Feral talents mind you, but for the 'Rogue' form that's still a huge sore point.

[Ro]

Could you elaborate on feral charge being bugged. I've read (alert, could be wrong info that I read) that swiftshifting is bugged and but nothing about feral charge. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Scorch]

Could you elaborate on feral charge being bugged. I've read (alert, could be wrong info that I read) that swiftshifting is bugged and but nothing about feral charge. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

It didn't interrupt spellcasting half the time.

What's the swiftshifting bug?

[Ro]

I'm not sure it's really a bug or not (or if what was posted is true) but...

I've seen it posted by several people that instead of reducing the time between shifting to caster form from feral form and being able to cast a spell it is working in reverse by reducing the time between caster->feral and using abilities, which is semi useless depending on rage/energy building talents.

A by product of the talent working in reverse is that the feral->caster to casting delay is instant for everyone.

Again, I can't confirm this because I don't have a druid high enough to have the talent yet :(

[Scorch]

I'm not sure it's really a bug or not (or if what was posted is true) but...

I've seen it posted by several people that instead of reducing the time between shifting to caster form from feral form and being able to cast a spell it is working in reverse by reducing the time between caster->feral and using abilities, which is semi useless depending on rage/energy building talents.

A by product of the talent working in reverse is that the feral->caster to casting delay is instant for everyone.

Again, I can't confirm this because I don't have a druid high enough to have the talent yet :(

Hmm interesting, it works like you described. I was so use to it working properly in beta I didn't even notice. I guess this is a beneficial bug since feral > caster instant spell is what really matters. Caster > Feral, the only thing I can think of you really need to get off instantly is Taunt in Bear form.

Druid shifting has always been home to all sorts of bizarre design decisions and bugs anyway. I haven't specced into Feral for a while so some of these might be fixed, but there's the Blood Frenzy 3 combo point thing that's still around I think, plus the Furor > shift into combat bug. They weren't even trying when they designed the tree, it's just a bunch of stuff duplicated from the Warrior/Rogue talents, and it doesn't even have an end-tree uber talent to boot. Feral Charge use to be a class-unique combat charge/stun for like a patch or two, then they gave warriors Intercept, which is the same thing but better, and nerfed Bear charge for whatever reason. Now Feral Charge doesn't even stun or even interrupt. Good grief.

[evilution]

your build needs more dps for sure

[KJunk]

The only other build I've really played around with was one I called Crit Bear.

Basically, you use a combination of a cheaper Swipe (skill on a 4 sec cooldown that swipes at 3 enemies), Primal Fury (talent that gives you 5 rage for each crit), a high chance to crit, bear's good armor and thorns DPS to maximize your rage generation, effeciency and raw DPS in bear form.

With at even a lowly 15% chance to crit, with Primal Fury working I was able to keep a 4 second swipe constantly going. I was also grinding on cat mobs generally, who attack with as low as a 1.3 second delay. At level 40 in the badlands on the mobs near Kargath, fighting 3 mobs at once, that's 40ish DPS from thorns alone. From the swipes and melee I was at 80 and peaking over 100 at times in melee DPS.

It's a very set kind of solo grinding and you have to be careful with your spots, as your survivability is very much in question. I didn't have any trouble tanking 3 high greens until they all died though. One heal and I'd be back at it, no downtime.

It was way faster grinding for me then my caster form, though not sure if it would have been faster then a fully geared and specced cat build as I never got to play it out.

[vexd]

I almost completely agree with your rest spec build scorch. I went ahead and finished out 5/5 in the ones you didnt feel needed it, mainly for the sake of completion. There isnt anything really worth it to put the points in out of the few you can siphon off here and there.


Balance Talents (18 points)


Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.


Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.


Improved Moonfire - 5/5 points
Increases the damage and critical strike chance of your Moonfire spell by 10%.


Nature's Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 20%.


Improved Entangling Roots - 3/3 points
Gives you a 100% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting Entangling Roots.


Omen of Clarity - 1/1 point
Imbue the Druid's weapon with natural energy. Each hit has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Clearcasting state. The Clearcasting state reduces the Mana cost of your next damage or healing spell by 100%. The Omen of Clarity enchantment lasts 5 minutes.


Moonglow - 2/5 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Moonfire and Starfire spells by 4%.




Feral Combat Talents (0 points)


None


Restoration Talents (33 points)


Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.


Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.


Improved Healing Touch - 5/5 points
Reduces the mana cost of your Healing Touch spell by 15%.


Gift of Nature - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Tranquility spells by 5%.


Reflection - 5/5 points
Allows 15% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting.


Subtlety - 5/5 points
Reduces the threat generated by your healing spells by 20%.


Nature's Swiftness - 1/1 point
When activated, your next Nature spell becomes an instant cast spell.


Improved Regrowth - 5/5 points
Increases the critical effect chance of your Regrowth spell by 50%.


Innervate - 1/1 point
Increases the target's Mana regeneration by 400% and allows 100% of the target's Mana regeneration to continue while casting. Lasts 20 seconds.


The 2 points i've put into moonglow are 2 spare points leftover... seemed like the best spot to drop them in. You could take the tranquility talent if you would like, but its fairly useless.

And pvp with restoration spec goes amazingly well... Nature's swiftness, root, innervate, bear form -- when these are used appropriately you shouldnt have any trouble (with the exception of priests and shamans of course...)

[Scorch]

And pvp with restoration spec goes amazingly well... Nature's swiftness, root, innervate, bear form -- when these are used appropriately you shouldnt have any trouble (with the exception of priests and shamans of course...)

Most Shamans and Priests I've been dueling lately don't know what to do with a Restoration-specced Druid. I don't like to give away secrets cause I like to enjoy the advantage while I still can :), but the counter against us is pretty obvious. That's just inexperience there, not recognizing a spell and its animation, but it's cause there aren't a lot of Druids around. The more Druids they fight the more people will learn and the harder it will be for us.

Honestly there's no reason a Shaman would lose to a Druid, they have a counter to all 3 of our heals, and yet I was fighting one the other day and 2 minutes into the fight I look up and my MotW was still there, the guy hadn't purged me once. It's not so much stupidity as just inexperience.

[KJunk]

The only time I've really managed to get off Innervates against Shaman in duels is if I root them and pull back to out of purge range. Not likely, but it can happen.

Against priests, you just can't do it period really.

In PvP classes will try and limit your ability to heal. This can royally screw you, but if you can get around it you win (duels at least).

Good shaman have 5 second cooldown earthshocks. They will also purge your heals over time. This ensures you can't actually get a Healing Touch off, and using the other heals is fruitless. In order to heal, you have to use Nature's Swiftness, have an awesome improved bear bash (even then, maybe not?), or root them and run out of range of their earth shock, 20 yards, and healing touch. If they cold shock you for some reason, that's your cue to healing touch.

Priests can silence you occassionaly, or fear you if you go for the heal near them. They can also dispel your heals over time.

I generally start all of my duels in bear form now, just for the extra HP and AC going into it. Also having the possible bash to get the first heal off makes a difference. Otherwise you come out of it with a NS'd heal at the very least.

[Scorch]

Thinking about switching to a slightly different 'Healer' build, I'm gonna see how it goes for a while. 31 Restoration would remain unchanged, but basically my theory is that since I'm dumping 10 into Moonfire just for PvP vs Mages/Rogues, I might be better off spending 11 to get to Feral Charge. I'd lose Omen like this but I keep forgetting to use it anyway, maybe it's better to have more utility.

I'm still iffy on Feral Charge since it works like only half the time with the spell interrupt, but maybe closing the distance alone would be worth against Mages, especially since we can break out of snare already by going Bear vs. a Frost Nova.

The 20 from Balance would go like this:


Balance Talents (7 points)

Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.

Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.

Nature's Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 20%.

Feral Combat Talents (11 points)

Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.

Improved Bash - 2/2 points
Increases the stun duration of your Bash ability by 1 second.

Sharpened Claws - 3/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance while in Bear or Cat form by 3%.

Feral Charge - 1/1 point
Causes you to charge an enemy, stopping its movement and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 seconds.

Then that's 3 points left over. I'd dump those into some combination of Swiftshifting, Improved Entangle, or Tranquility (for raids), I'm still deciding.

The key obviously is the Wolfshead Helm.

Anyway I'll try it for a while and see if I can make it work.

[KJunk]

I've debated the 8/11/31 as well as a consideration for after I've raided for quite some time and could afford to look in a more PvP friendly build.

With regards to PvP, losing Omen wouldn't hurt too much I don't think. Since it's a random proc you can't really count on it, and while it does help in small scale group PvP and many duels, I could see Feral Charge having much more assured response.

I don't see Omen being of any use in mass PvP, but I'm not sure if Feral Charge would either really.

Keeping the 31 restoration you keep the Innervate and Improved Regrowth that distinguish you over a 21 restoration build, beyond that it's not too much worse, especially for PvP where Tranquility and Subtlety see little use.

[tnarg]

Hey Scorch,

I've got a 59 druid on Dragonmaw and I played with you in beta and indal/tiv in alpha etc...

I was just wondering about you mentioning tranquility for raids. Does it infact effect the entire raid party? I need to test that out, but if you know, please reply. Thanks.

Nat

[KJunk]

It does not :( It totally should.

[vexd]

group only. really mana efficient for what it is though...

[NiNja|]

group only. really mana efficient for what it is though...

I HATE YOU VEXD GG! :)

[vexd]

Im not feeling the love!!

wait wait, im getting something...

nope. not love

[SandDemon]

Just hit level 10, wondering if you guys could give me a good talent progression of then grinder build?

And maybe do a write-up about each talent? Nothing exists like that that I can find, and it'd be real helpfule to know which is useful, which is a waste, and which is kinda "blah"

[vexd]

feral till 40-45... switch over to full balance for a surprisingly massive dps till about lvl 60, then flip into restoration for high powered instancing.

[SandDemon]

be a bit more specific :)

Should I bother with Nature's Grasp, or IMOTW this early on? Or just start pumping into feral like this:

Ferocity 5/5
Sharpened Claws 5/5

Haven't decided if bear or cat is better for leveling....
====If I go bear:========
Primal Fury 5/5
Faerie Fire 1/1
Feral Charge 1/1
Improved Bash 2/2
Improved Demoralizing Roar 1/5
Thick Hide 5/5
=====================
====If I go cat:=========
Blood Frenzy 5/5
Faerie Fire 1/1
Improved Shred 2/2
Predatory Strikes 2/5
Feline Swiftness
Predatory Strikes 5/5
=====================

If I should incoporate MoTW and Nature's Grasp, how should I do it? And why shoot for Balance from 40 to 60?

[vexd]

specifically, you should put points into the rage/energy reduction talent first and foremost. then go ahead and get the crit chance one, and you dont necessarily need the bear stun enhancer, or bear charge, as most grinding youll be doing will be in cat form. typically after i get 5 in those first two sets ill get 5 in improved motw over in the restoration tree. then you can keep progressing through feral with a strong stress in cat form, or put some in nature's grasp -- but to be honest anytime your going to need an instant root is when your going to be above level 40 anyways.

its around this point, somewhere between 40 and 50 when you make a big choice as a druid. the level you do this switch depends on how often you instance and how often you grind. if you grind you should keep with feral as close to level 50 as possible, but i really dont recommend keeping feral past this point as it is very very very bad. Around this gray area when you eventually switch, you get to decide whether go immediately go into restoration or balance.

balance spec brought out a surprising amount of dps, and with it i was able to grind at the same rate, if not faster than, my cat form grinding around lvl 20. with a combination of smart camp choice, and rooting + scoot tactics, along with a moonfire dot kept on the mob accompanied with starfire pounding them, i was topping 240dps. Specced out in balance, starfires past lvl 50 were hitting for 400-500, and critting for near 1200 every 20-25% of the time. keep in mind with this build, you will have a strong push into balance, getting hurricane for instances, and any points past the 31 in balance going into restoration. hurricane for instancing makes you an extremely strong compliment for any standard grouping with a druid ( 1 priest 1 mage 1 druid 1 rogue/hunter/shaman 1 warrior). be sure to cast your hurricane aoe only after the mage begins to aoe, as it is channeled and will get interrupted really really quickly (builds a ton of hate -- this is a damn good aoe spell)

as far as restoration spec goes, get up to innervate, and beef up your healing as much as possible, with some select few taken from balance. there are already a few builds on restoration spec on this site that you can peruse. im going to go make a balance template for you up to lvl 55, and a feral template up to lvl 45.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
Feral template up to level 45
Balance Talents (9 points)


Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.


Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.


Nature's Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 20%.


Improved Entangling Roots - 2/3 points
Gives you a 70% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting Entangling Roots.




Feral Combat Talents (22 points)


Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.


Sharpened Claws - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance while in Bear or Cat form by 5%.


Blood Frenzy - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from Cat form abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.


Predatory Strikes - 5/5 points
Increases the Attack Power bonus from your Cat form ability by 20%.


Faerie Fire (Cat) - 1/1 point
Decrease the armor of the target by 175 for 40 seconds. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible.


Feline Swiftness - 1/1 point
Increases your movement speed by 30% while in Cat form. Only active outdoors.




Restoration Talents (5 points)


Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
Balance spec with lvl 55
Balance Talents (33 points)


Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.


Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.


Nature's Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 20%.


Improved Moonfire - 5/5 points
Increases the damage and critical strike chance of your Moonfire spell by 10%.


Improved Entangling Roots - 3/3 points
Gives you a 100% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting Entangling Roots.


Omen of Clarity - 1/1 point
Imbue the Druid's weapon with natural energy. Each hit has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Clearcasting state. The Clearcasting state reduces the Mana cost of your next damage or healing spell by 100%. The Omen of Clarity enchantment lasts 5 minutes.


Moonglow - 5/5 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Moonfire and Starfire spells by 10%.


Nature's Grace - 1/1 point
Your critical strikes with the Wrath, Starfire, and Moonfire spells grace you with a blessing of nature, reducing the casting time of your next Regrowth or Healing Touch spell by 1 second.


Moonfury - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your Starfire and Moonfire spells by 10%.


Vengeance - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage of your Starfire, Moonfire, and Wrath spells by 100%.


Hurricane - 1/1 point
Creates a violent storm in the area surrounding the caster, causing 53 Nature damage to all nearby enemies every 1 second, and reducing the attack speed of all nearby enemies by 20%. Lasts 10 seconds.




Feral Combat Talents (0 points)


None


Restoration Talents (13 points)


Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.


Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.


Improved Healing Touch - 2/5 points
Reduces the mana cost of your Healing Touch spell by 6%.


Gift of Nature - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Tranquility spells by 5%.

[Scorch]

I specced into Feral Charge recently and I must say I don't miss Omen of Clarity at all. On paper it's such an incredible spell but in practice it's a pile of crap. It's got such a low chance of going off, and when it does it seems like no one ever needs heals at the time, so I'm running around those 15 seconds looking for someone to blow a Regrowth on, I get more and more frazzled as the timer ticks down, and half the time I just go 'fuck it' with 2 or 3 seconds left and just Moonfire with it. Meh.

[vexd]

mmhmm. i am itching to spec into pvp... omen is total crap for pvp, and only marginally usefull in pve grind.

besides, when the patch comes out, im probably going to do most grinding in cat form again thanks to the lovely dps bonus/skills we are gunna get.

[Scorch]

Did you read the stuff from the test server? It looks like the big boost for Cat will be like 2 dps past 40. The new finisher doesn't sound bad apparently, it'll be between a 3 to 4 bubble Eviscerate depending on how much energy you have left.

I still think the Cat form boosts will be a big joke, it's just a bandaid covering up the real problem, which is weapons not counting into animal damage. 2 or 3 patches on when everyone else get weapon upgrades, we'll be complaining about animal damage all over again.

[FallenDevil]

I completely agree with scorch on this one. The Cat Form DPS is not going to take such a huge leap as everyone is expecting, IMO. The should let weapon damage and the attack power boost stack, just as if you were in caster form and put a new Attackpower boost armor on. Even at level 60 The dps in cat form still will not match what i can do in caster form, which is kinda sad really. Makes me wonder why they gave druids different forms to begin with. cept the travels. Again this is all just my opinion.

[Arkhubar Bhal'Hruku]

Still, beyond cat form DPS improvements being bleh, the other improvements look really nice. I'm still having a tough time figuring out where to put my last 4 points though with my new talent build, its gonna be some combination of swiftshift, nature's reach, and improved root, but I'm not sure exactly what. :\

[Mylar]

anyone tested the new changes?

[Scorch]

Good:

Barkskin - Interesting. Makes Tranq and Hurricane usable if nothing else. Haste bug is funny.

Eviscerate - Or whatever the new finisher is called. It's like 70-80% effectiveness of Rogue Evis basically. Rip is still better for high armor bosses but at least there's a choice now.

Bad:

Swiftshifting - Useless now. 6 seconds is way too short. 15 is more in line.

Cat DPS Boost - Lies.

[KJunk]

I disagree about Swiftshifting being useless.

If you're just running around outdoors grinding or tradeskilling or what have you, going cheetah before bear or cat form knocks 162 mana off the cost. As soon as we get our hands on 3 pieces of stormrage, it'll make shifting in that manner cost only 300'ish to get into bear or cat form.

Also there are quite a few duels where I bear bash, debear, Healing Touch, rebear... or feral charge, jump past, debear regrowth rebear. It's very helpful for cutting down the mana costs there. Also, I can't complain about having nature's grasp and a point in nature's reach again.

I gave up some feral crits (3%) and Primal Fury to get it, so I hope that's worth it. I haven't dueled a lot yet with it though, will probably post back here after trying it there.

[Arkhubar Bhal'Hruku]

I got a 1198 crit with our new cat finisher (not sure if it was with or without, I'd have to guess with) in Dire maul. Most of my non crits no extra energy were in the 450-500, my other crit that I know was fully energy was like 1075 or so. I will prolly do some tests against someone without any armor, to see how high I can get it to go.

Barkskin is nice to use with tranquility, and if you are getting the shit kicked out of you by a lot of fast attack mobs so you can't heal yourself (spiders :P).

I did not notice any change in cat form DPS. The bear form bandaid apparently has a chance on each tick to crit, which makes me a very happy druid. The changes to how dodges and whatever now count for rage are also nice. I main tanked first part of DM (tank pulled a houdini on us), and I was getting more than enough rage, I could chain my maul a ton of the time.

Swiftshifting is alright, if you pop out to heal yourself and pop back in or something. I just have 2 talent points in it, though I might respec to put them into improved root.

That's all I've noticed so far.

[Shanked]

I've noticed a slight increase in cat dps, I have 11 feral points, and while I probably average at about 130 dps now (rather than 11o previously) with a string of crits or a ravage or bite crit I can get it pretty damn high.

I've had 207dps on a mob in Dire Maul, one of the original elementals that roam in trios... that was with ravage crit + bite crit + a few crits in between. I was wearing a few + attack power here, which may have helped out.

My highest bite crit was on a 6o priest with inner fire up, I used it without full energy, as soon as the ability was available it went off, crit for 1308. I was wearing full wildheart set, nothing to increase strength or attack power.

Overall I'm happy with the changes, barkskin is very nice for PvE, and also useful in PvP.

While I agree with increasing the time the swiftshifting effect is in place, I really like the idea behind the swiftshifting talent. And it still may be useful in group pvp, as I am always in/out of travel form to kite + prevent polys.

[vexd]

barkskin + hurricane/tranquility is the best thing to come out of this patch.

[arch]

Cat Form Build (aka. the Master Grinder)
7 Balance/36 Feral/8 Restoration

- Ideal for grinding and leveling, because of the complete lack of downtime. Cat form, kill, switch up and heal, go back to Cat form again. Past 45-50 this drops off dramatically and it becomes useless but you'd find that out pretty quickly.
- Faerie Fire is just to pull with mostly.
- Pounce vs. Ravage: with Feral spec, Pounce wins hands down. You have to look at the Cat form's only finisher, which is a great DoT, but it's still a DoT. It means if you want to get the most efficiency you'll have to get the finisher off early on in the fight or forget it. Pounce with talents gives you 2 combo pts, it also gives you enough time to get a Shred off. If that crits it's 3 combo pts, due to some weird bug. That's 5 combo pts within the 2 seconds of the fight. Then you get the Rip off and you can relax.
- With gear it's a tossup, I went for all agility and it worked out surprisingly well, I got my crit rate to almost 19% which is amazing with Blood Frenzy. It let me get Rip off almost constantly, which is nice. I haven't tried an all Str build but I'm sure that'll work, it's just hard to find +Str leather gear. +Agil leather gear is easy cause you just keep all the Rogue quest rewards.
- The stealth talent now gives you extra levels of stealth it looks like, so with 5 pts in you can sneak at 5 lvls higher. That's a very easy way to finish a lot of quests.


Balance Talents (7 points)

Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.

Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.

Swiftshifting - 2/3 points
Reduces the delay before using spells and abilities by 1 second after having shapeshifted.

Feral Combat Talents (36 points)

Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.

Sharpened Claws - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance while in Bear or Cat form by 5%.

Blood Frenzy - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from Cat form abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

Improved Prowl - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while Prowling. More effective than Improved Prowl (Rank 4)..

Faerie Fire (Cat) - 1/1 point
Decrease the armor of the target by 175 for 40 seconds. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible.

Predatory Strikes - 5/5 points
Increases the Attack Power bonus from your Cat form ability by 20%.

Improved Shred - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Shred ability by 10.

Feline Swiftness - 1/1 point
Increases your movement speed by 30% while in Cat form. Only active outdoors.

Strength of the Wild - 4/4 points
Increases your Strength while in Bear or Cat form by 12%.

Improved Pounce - 2/2 points
Gives your Pounce ability a 100% chance to add an additional combo point to the target.

Primal Instinct - 1/1 point
Reduces the Mana cost of your shapeshifting abilities by 25%.

Restoration Talents (8 points)

Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.

Nature's Focus - 3/5 points
Gives you a 36% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.


In what order would you suggest speccing this build?

Thanks in advance.

[Scorch]

I went Nature's Grasp, Improved MotW, then all the Cat stuff. You get Cat starting lvl 20 so I didn't see the point going feral from 10-20.

[Rokian]

Hi, couple questions:

How long would it take on average to level to 60 with the grind build?

and Does the new ferocious bite ability help at all with the build ?

Oh and when grinding do you pounce the target or ravage ? Thanks.

[Mupod]

Bahaha this patch borked the hell out of cat...enemy suffers 18 damage from your 5 point rip, ty blizz

until they fix it I'm gonna play with a balance build, I want to see what hurricane looks like...I've seriously never seen someone who has it and that intrigues me

I'll kinda miss nature's swiftness but oh well

[Scorch]

I'm hearing that the new Ferocious Bite is even worse than the old one...

Last patch it was suffering from the old Execute bug, where if you miss the Bite it sucked up all your energy points anyway. Now I'm hearing if you miss not only will it use up all your energy, but all your combo points as well? I'm gonna test it out today, I was trying it in MC last night but the giants are so big I can't see if miss or not :(

That plus Rip doing like piddly dmg a tick for some reason, means we don't have a finisher that works, again. GG Blizzard.

[NakedSavage]

I have a level 40 Druid alt. Right now I have 5 points in Improved MotW, and the rest in Balance. My original build plan was focused on PvP (Archimonde), and high spell damage. I'm thinking of respeccing to get Feral Charge and experiment a bit using feral forms more than I do now. I'll probably keep this new build until my late 50s when I'll respec for Innervate.

My main questions is- what type of gear should I focus on to make the most of this new build? I'll most likely start up the Balance tree after putting the 11 in Feral and 5 in Restoration for MotW. I'm currently heavy in Int/Sta, but I'm guessing I'll be better off focusing on Str/Sta with some Int here and there. Any recommendations?

Also- are there any instance drops/quest rewards from 40-55 that would be good for this type of build? I'll be checking the usual sites myself, but after searching for high-end Warrior gear since the beginning of retail, and having a lack of Druids in my guild, I'm starting with a blank slate. I'm having someone make me a Wolfshead Helm for this build, but any other suggestions would be appreciated.

-EDIT- I should also mention that I'm probably going to hold off a bit until the recently introduced Feral bugs have been resolved, or at least acknowledged by Blizzard.

[Scorch]

I'd just keep everything that looks remotely useful. I'm lvl 60 and I still keep 3 or 4 sets of gear in my bag. It takes up most of my bag space, so thank god I'm not an alchemist, but it's the price of being a Druid and trying to keep all my forms useful somewhat.

Caster needs spirit/int/stam, Cat needs str/agil/stam, Bear needs str/stam/ac, and as you get near cap you'll start collecting a set of resist gear as well. Those are 4 wildly different sets of equipment that you'd have to deal with. When I was leveling up I didn't go out of my way to grab them, but if there was no rogue in my group I'd grab their drops in instances, and for quest rewards I'd pick the leather Rogue stuff if there was no Druid gear available.

[Mupod]

So I ended up not getting hurricane, and taking NS instead...seems to work quite nicely. I obliterated one of the best equipped alliance mages on the server with nothing but moonfire spam, I feel dirty


I'd just keep everything that looks remotely useful. I'm lvl 60 and I still keep 3 or 4 sets of gear in my bag. It takes up most of my bag space, so thank god I'm not an alchemist, but it's the price of being a Druid and trying to keep all my forms useful somewhat.

Caster needs spirit/int/stam, Cat needs str/agil/stam, Bear needs str/stam/ac, and as you get near cap you'll start collecting a set of resist gear as well. Those are 4 wildly different sets of equipment that you'd have to deal with. When I was leveling up I didn't go out of my way to grab them, but if there was no rogue in my group I'd grab their drops in instances, and for quest rewards I'd pick the leather Rogue stuff if there was no Druid gear available.

I'm a druid alchemist pack rat...you don't even want to see my inventory

and yeah, I grab anything that looks like I could use it someday...I got a heliotrope cape (10 int, 1% spell crit) from dire maul a while back and banked it...now that I'm balance I use it full time. +damage gear is a lot better now, too

For my regular running around gear I would wear things like the songbird blouse, death's clutch, and wildheart kilt - feral doesn't just need str and agility, int and spirit are important too. Although to be honest I only wore the cenarion gloves because they do a really good job of covering up the songbird blouse. God damned purple sweater

Bear tanking, I keep pure physical gear around because it's not like you'll be switching out that much. Although it is fun to switch out, NS heal yourself, and innervate the priest in the middle of a fight. I need to get a thrall's resolve now, poor ring of protection :(

[Aestey]

I'd just keep everything that looks remotely useful. I'm lvl 60 and I still keep 3 or 4 sets of gear in my bag. It takes up most of my bag space, so thank god I'm not an alchemist, but it's the price of being a Druid and trying to keep all my forms useful somewhat.

Caster needs spirit/int/stam, Cat needs str/agil/stam, Bear needs str/stam/ac, and as you get near cap you'll start collecting a set of resist gear as well. Those are 4 wildly different sets of equipment that you'd have to deal with. When I was leveling up I didn't go out of my way to grab them, but if there was no rogue in my group I'd grab their drops in instances, and for quest rewards I'd pick the leather Rogue stuff if there was no Druid gear available.

On that note, what trinket did you get on the "For The Horde!" quest? I can see reasons to get either trinket, depending on what type of player you are. I believe you are primarily a healer, but that mark of tyranny is soo nice for bear form, especially with the lack of Armor trinkets.

What did everyone get, and if you had the chanec, would you get it again? Also if you were primarily focused in PvP (if you aren't already) what would you get? I took the mark of tyranny, just because I do solo a lot, and there are other trinkets out there that help me heal. Just wondering what everyone else chose, and why.

[Mupod]

Even though I'm on a spell crit% kick right now (hello dire maul), I still stand by my choice of the mark of tyranny. The armor boost is just so damn useful for bear form. Arcane resist and dodge% aren't bad at all either.

I'm currently trying to get a mindtap talisman from that guy at the beginning of west dire maul...one dropped but my priest beat me on the roll. Grrr

[Scorch]

I got Mark of Tyranny as well. Enchanters can get the Smoking Heart of the Mountain too I think, that's another 150 armor.

[vexd]

the key is really finding a set of gear and weapon switches that work well enough for all forms and for your particular spec. you wont have time to really gauge an opponent and slap on a completely new set of gear before each skirmish.

you can get plenty of added armor/stam/defense for bear form from the 2h mace in dire maul, or a warden staff. you can get plenty of str/stam from any number of shitty 2h maces for cat form. you can get plenty of int/stam/spir from the plethora of caster weapons out there.

these days most of my variability between forms is found in which weapons i slap on for whatever stance im in. i tihnk carrying around 4 sets is entirely unnecessary.

if you get the time to completely flip your gear around for whatever stance your in, and whatever kind of a fight your facing (this is time out of combat btw.. in order to switch armor), then by all means go for it. but the chaotic nature of pvp doesnt allow for this imo. weapon switches should suffice :)

[Scorch]

There's a mod I used that let me save different equipment profiles, so I could switch sets of armor instantly. It's like http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=309 I think. I had a profile for 'Normal', 'Tanking', 'PvP', 'Onyxia', etc.

I switch equipment out in PvP more base on group make-up if anything, if I'm the third healer in the group I'll switch out equipment and go Cat or something. I've also all my weapons on hotkeys, so I can switch to Fist of Omokk for cat, then switch out to the emperor staff during my Innervate, and so on.

[NakedSavage]

Thanks for the input on equipment guys. I've pretty much come to the same conclusion- just keep anything with beneficial stats and use it based on the situation. I'm doing pretty much the same thing with my 60 Warrior right now, with a set of tanking gear and a set of general PvP gear.

I think Scorch mentioned that he specced into Feral Charge, and liked it. For those of you who have Feral Charge, what (if anything) are you using to get instant rage when shifting into bear? I'm going to have a Wolfshead Helm made in case I decide to respec and check it out, and the only other way I know of to get instant rage is 5 points into Furor. I'd like to know if anyone close to or at 60, and has Feral Charge, uses either of these methods. My dilemma is that other than the rage generation, the Wolfshead helm doesn't have the greatest stats, and getting Furor just for Feral Charge would mean sacrificing points that are possibly better spent elsewhere. Just looking for ideas and to see what others with more experience with the class have done.

[vexd]

the mod i use flops weapons around automatically based on what 'stance' you are in. no macros, nothing. just click bear form and your weapons get put on automatically.

stancesets --
http://curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=151

get the latest version of the link below, as stancesets has a dependency on it.
http://curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=110

[vexd]

also on the bear charge question, i just use the rage generation ability we alreayd have. time it out well enough to where you have the 5 rage you need when your bear charge needs to go through.

also, be aware that bear charge lays down a 4 second spell casting block on them regardless of if they are casting or not. use this to your advantage.

[KJunk]

That's not true, Vexd. It interrupts a spell in progress and makes that spell uncastable for 4 seconds, but doesn't outright silence them for 4 seconds.

Also, have they fixed the bear where Feral Charge requires 10 rage rather then the listed 5? It'll still work if you only have 5 rage, but if you had 10 or more it seemed to be taking 10.

[vexd]

try it out a little more kjunk. im fairly sure it outright silences for 4 seconds. all tests ive done with it have followed this.

[Scorch]

I think I've seen a pally shield while the feral charge debuff was on them, for what it's worth. I don't know, the whole 'prevent casting' part of it still seems a bit unstable.

[RubiksCube]

Naw, thats just because Pally Shields can be activatet at ANY given time, a silenced, stunned and polymorphed Pally will be able to activate his shield which also cancels out ANY negative effect it seems.

[Scorch]

Naw, thats just because Pally Shields can be activatet at ANY given time, a silenced, stunned and polymorphed Pally will be able to activate his shield which also cancels out ANY negative effect it seems.

:roll:

[NakedSavage]

Naw, thats just because Pally Shields can be activatet at ANY given time, a silenced, stunned and polymorphed Pally will be able to activate his shield which also cancels out ANY negative effect it seems.
Yup. I think the reason given by Blizzard was that it's an "innate ability" of the class, and not something that is cast. :roll: Not to go off-topic, but I also heard that Paladins lose all PvP contribution points for a given battle if they use Divine Shield. :D

[RubiksCube]

Innate ability my ass, if that is the point than why the hell can't I shift to bear while being stunned?

Shifting ain't the innate ability of druids, I guess...

[RubiksCube]

Tested this today:

Apparently you can shift from bear into druid form while stunned, but can't shift back into bear.

Sux

[Aestey]

NakedSavage,

Even though I'm a healer, I threw 5 points into Furor, and I love it :)

Right now I have 32 in Restoration, 0/5 Imp HT, 4/5 Imp rej, 5/5 Imp reg. So far it's worked fine for me. My healing gear is totally stacked with Int/Spi, and so far I haven't had any problems without Imp HT, and have fared a lot better when getting jumped by a rogue in the wild.


Another question for everyone. Have any of you ever experimented with Imp Wrath? Right now I'm trying out different combos with my first 5 talent points in balance. I'm thinking I might not NEED all 5 points into natures grasp, and I'm surprising using wrath quite often in PvP while a target is rooted, then bear form'ing for melee. Nature's grasp procs quick enough anyways with only a few points in it. Anyone else tried this? What numbers did you find worked best?

[KJunk]

Nature's grasp feels like a waste of 5 points right now. Too many ways to break root, it's too flakey as it is, and if I'm in caster form and am trying to peel people off me, I'm probably doing more important things with my precious universal cooldown then risking a resistable, quickly breakable root.

Imp. Wrath isn't bad, I mean ups its DPS by a significant portion and makes it much easier to use in combat. I just dont' find myself in caster form very often unless I'm rooting or healing.

[RubiksCube]

Nature's grasp feels like a waste of 5 points right now. Too many ways to break root, it's too flakey as it is, and if I'm in caster form and am trying to peel people off me, I'm probably doing more important things with my precious universal cooldown then risking a resistable, quickly breakable root.

Imp. Wrath isn't bad, I mean ups its DPS by a significant portion and makes it much easier to use in combat. I just dont' find myself in caster form very often unless I'm rooting or healing.

I've tested multiple Talent Setups and I tend to miss the 100% chance on Grasp when I don't put it there.

I use it especially against Rogues.
Against Rogues, you need to get him away from you sometimes and if my bash is dodged most of the times I shift -> Grasp -> Shift and he WILL be in roots so I can heal. Plus I've had Rogues use mind-numbing poison against me lately, so the time they're stunned when bashed will NOT be enough for you to regrowth.

With the superior armor, bear is really the way to go against rogues and nature's graps comes in real handy in the match up, but only if it's reliable. Let's just say I don't like gambling on % Chances.

Sure, rogues do attack so fast, they will be afflicted by roots sooner or later, but on the other hand they do so much damage, especially with the end game equip, I don't wanna waste time waiting for Graps to actually proc.

[NakedSavage]

NakedSavage,

Even though I'm a healer, I threw 5 points into Furor, and I love it :)

Right now I have 32 in Restoration, 0/5 Imp HT, 4/5 Imp rej, 5/5 Imp reg. So far it's worked fine for me. My healing gear is totally stacked with Int/Spi, and so far I haven't had any problems without Imp HT, and have fared a lot better when getting jumped by a rogue in the wild.
I'm guessing since you have Furor you also have Feral charge, since that seems to be one of the only reasons to have Furor in the first place. If so, how are the rest of your points distributed in Feral and Balance? Do you have any points in Swiftshifting?

My train of thought right now is to get Feral charge with points in Improved Bash. I'm thinking it would be nice to get a stun off and have time to shift and heal before it wears off. With Furor and Feral Charge I predict I'lll be relying a lot on Dire Bear for PvP, and I'm wondering if the mana savings provided by swiftshifting are noticible. The 6 seconds is a bit short, but seems like enough to get off a Regrowth and Rejuvenate (and possibly a Moonfire) before shifting back to Bear.

Thanks again for everyone's input so far.

[Aestey]

Right now my feral and resto look like this I think:

Feral Combat Talents (11 points)

Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.

Improved Bash - 2/2 points
Increases the stun duration of your Bash ability by 1 second.

Sharpened Claws - 3/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance while in Bear or Cat form by 3%.

Feral Charge - 1/1 point
Causes you to charge an enemy, stopping its movement and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 seconds.


Restoration Talents (32 points)

Furor - 5/5 points
Gives you a 100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear form.

Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.

Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.

Gift of Nature - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Tranquility spells by 5%.

Improved Rejuvenation - 4/5 points
Increases the effect of your Rejuvenation spell by 12%.

Reflection - 5/5 points
Allows 15% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting.

Nature's Swiftness - 1/1 point
When activated, your next Nature spell becomes an instant cast spell.

Improved Regrowth - 5/5 points
Increases the critical effect chance of your Regrowth spell by 50%.

Innervate - 1/1 point
Increases the target's Mana regeneration by 400% and allows 100% of the target's Mana regeneration to continue while casting. Lasts 20 seconds.



I'm still trying out different strategies (as I said above) with Balance, the first 5 with Imp wrath/nature focus. That leaves me with 3, which I've tried in imp. entangling, reach, and swiftshifting, but still haven't really decided which I like more. Improved entangling is a little rough now since the patch, and as you said 6 seconds isn't very long. I'm still a little confused here with my balance tree.

[Mupod]

Thats a great build, I used it myself for a while. Nearly impossible to kill and can main heal any instance even with crap for gear.

Just don't expect to kill anything in under half an hour...grinding with the heal-bear build is a nightmare

[Rokian]

Yes! they ninja fixed the rip and ferocious bite bugs with todays patch, thank god.

[KJunk]

I've noticed lately using a few logging programs that I've been out-healing a majority of the priests on our raids (MC, Onyxia) with my 32 points in restoration. The only ones that have out-healed me are the ones that are specifically holy specced (few and far between, most priests get their rocks off to a shadow/disc build it seems).

Anyone else noticed similar trends?

[Scorch]

Depends on what you're healing.

When I'm grouped with rogues and warriors and in a heal bank or something I'm always near the top. When I get grouped with Mages and casters I'm more near the middle. When I'm having dinner beside the computer and not really paying attention I'm near the bottom. When I'm in a bad mood and don't feel like healing a lot I'm at the bottom :roll:

[Mupod]

Wow, I thought the Rip bug last time was bad...now our buffs vanish on shifting. :roll:

That means no MOTW, no regrowth, no rejuvenation...sigh.

I like the cenarion changes though. I sure didn't need the useless strength and agility tacked onto it. Don't know why they took the +damage mods off...spell crit on legs is nice though, at least they aren't a downgrade from my dire maul gear anymore.

Supposedly our highly mediocre PVP reward gear doesn't even work, can't say I'm surprised. I'm only a blood guard at the moment, highest druid on my server but not enough to check out the speed bonus talent.

CTF is awesome even though druids are defenseless indoors. Can't catch me, woo

haven't tried alterac yet...maybe tomorrer

[Athrun]

What do you think of this build?


Balance Talents (9 points)
• Improved Wrath - 2/5 points
Reduces the cast time of your Wrath spell by 0.2 seconds.
• Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.
• Improved Nature's Grasp - 2/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 30%.
• Swiftshifting - 3/3 points
After leaving a shapeshift form, reduces the casting cost of the next shapeshift by 60% if used with 6 seconds.
• Nature's Reach - 1/2 point
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 10%.



Feral Combat Talents (11 points)
• Improved Demoralizing Roar - 5/5 points
Increases the Attack Power reduction of your Demoralizing Roar by 25%.
• Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.
• Feral Charge - 1/1 point
Causes you to charge an enemy, stopping its movement and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 seconds.



Restoration Talents (31 points)
• Furor - 3/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear form.
• Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.
• Improved Healing Touch - 3/5 points
Reduces the mana cost of your Healing Touch spell by 9%.
• Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.
• Gift of Nature - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Tranquility spells by 5%.
• Improved Rejuvenation - 2/5 points
Increases the effect of your Rejuvenation spell by 6%.
• Reflection - 5/5 points
Allows 15% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting.
• Nature's Swiftness - 1/1 point
When activated, your next Nature spell becomes an instant cast spell.
• Improved Regrowth - 5/5 points
Increases the critical effect chance of your Regrowth spell by 50%.
• Innervate - 1/1 point
Increases the target's Mana regeneration by 400% and allows 100% of the target's Mana regeneration to continue while casting. Lasts 20 seconds.

[Zemisce]

I think any NS build is viable :)

The 9/11/31 is the best build anyone can come up with for pvp. Although the ultimate survivalist build I think its its 9/21/21. You are immune to gankings with this build really, even if they are 3 or more. Improved cat speed + dash + improved stealth and do a /y asdf :)

Though missing imp regrowth and innervate is sad :(

Anyway, I would like to ask you Scorch how do you kill other druids. There is the common saying that whoever plays more mana efficient wins but I think thats wrong. If you dont take offense the battle will carry on forever... and I dont mean forever 10 minutes I mean forever really.

The problem is: If you go into atrittion war into bear, you are vulnurable to hibernate/rejuvenation/bandage combo :( Even if we re jumped oom the battle will carry on forever.

If you go spamming spells than he will just heal up...

I do have a tactic but would like to hear from you. Thanks very much.

[Scorch]

I don't know if there's any one way to win a Druid vs. Druid fight honestly, there are only so many strategies and they all pretty much have a counter, so if two smart Druids are fighting, the one that everyone seems to ends up falling on is just whacking each other and trying to cast as little as possible to save mana. As to why you would want to do that, Bear is just too suspectable to Hibernate, and nukes, well just calculate the mana efficiency of Wrath/Moonfire/Starfire vs our heals :(

The longest fight I've ever had was against another Druid, it went around 8 minutes (I mean, NS almost came up for the 3rd time). We tried everything, Bear, trinkets, clickables, whatever. In the end I was so tired, I just backed off and did a /lie, he did as well after a moment and we just stopped and left.

In the end if you really want to win you should probably try and outsmart the other guy, but that only works if you know your class that much more than the other guy. If he's Healing Touch happy then get some stuns off, if he's Bear happy use Hibernate, if he's getting too low on hp, frontload a bit with Wrath/MF to scare him into using NS and/or blowing more mana than he should.

My fastest Druid vs. Druid fight was probably at the Yeti cave in Hillsbrad, I fought for a bit, then lured him into the cave and ran back out. I could Entangle but he couldn't travel form from inside, so he had to shift Bear twice just to get out, blew like 1500 mana doing so, and it was pretty simple to win after that.

In the end I mean, I just try to stay away from 1v1 Druid fights, to the point where I'm like, "Oh awesome some alliance to kil- oh shit it's a Druid - fuck it" cause they take too long and are incredibly boring :(

[Zemisce]

Yeah you re right.. I ve bet some druids using my "solution" but also have failed miserably while trying it. I go like this : I start in Cat (he goes bear 90% of the time) and I build 5 combo on him. On the long term cat loses to bear but initially I dont think its so bad going cat since he's going to enrage anyway. I shift and hibernate then starfire and keep him sleeplocked. Warstomp sleep, nature swiftness sleep.. Sometimes its enough to finish them. Due to some weird bug they get out of bear while sleeping sometimes. If they do I just use the finisher and hope for a crit..

Of course, we are talking about a server that is months younger than Archimonde (europe here), with far worse geared druids.. I imagine the resist rates someone would get against Onyxia/MC geared druid.

Good thing we are getting new features in some future patches.. A blizz employee refered at gamespy intervew that we are top priority after warlocks. I hope they add more features that makes us a better support class as well as some extra dps. If I was alliance I would have rerolled already for paladin since imo its pointless to play a alliance druid when there is a far better support class with seals, auras, plate, shields.. dispel.. fast heals..

[Kaliko]

Hi all. I'm new to the "Druid" class, but I'm not new to WoW. I recently decided to make a Tauren Druid. I am currently playing a Level 26 (half way to 27) Tauren Druid... I was looking at the Druid build that was outlined, and I decided to go with "The Grinder" build. Since I am in fact level 26, and most of my Talents are in Restoration now, I was wondering what I would start out speccing with to go into "The Grinder" build. Like, are there any tips you could give me to what to max out and everything? I've went over the Talent table with my total points I have at the moment, and it seems as if I'd only get to the Bear specs for now... not totally sure... it's been a few days since I've checked, but I was wondering if someone could give me tips on what to put points in to start out with "The Grinder" build. Thanks.

[Molakar]

Taking this in the build-thread instead of making a new one. In endgame pve/pvp what items shall I go for? For pve I believe I'm going to be a pure supportchar (healing buffing etc) so int, spir and +heal and no particulary gear or shall I run ubrs 100 times and hope for a drop specific drop? And for pvp I'm thinking of going solo, what gear should I have then? Str, sta, agi. +crit, +dodge, +hit, and is there any specific gear that I should get?

Can you guys post your "ultimate" pve and pvp gear?

Thanks

[Holydiver]

What`s ur opinion about Subtlety? Have u tried if works well?
BTW with next patch , changing any equipment on combat will be unable to be done. something that sound fair enough. Also isnt Druids role to be healer? anything else sounds useless to me.
I`m asking all this cause i try to figure mainly what kind of equipment i should focus on finding and secondly to the most appropriate build.
Lastly i would like to ask what of equipment (to a healer role) would be better to have, one that boost intellect, spirit, healing done effects or chance to crit with spells? cause I`ve notice that Innervate doesn`t work well f u don`t have a respected amount of spirit.

PS1: I`ve figured this built but I`m not so sure about Subtlety

Feral Combat Mastery 11
Feral Combat Mastery
Ferocity Rank 5
Improved Bash Rank 2
Sharpened Claws Rank 3
Feral Charge Rank 1

Balance Mastery 2
Nature's Grasp Rank 1
Improved Nature's Grasp Rank 1

Restoration Mastery 38
Improved Mark of the Wild Rank 5
Furor Rank 5
Nature's Focus Rank 5
Gift of Nature Rank 1
Reflection Rank 5
Improved Rejuvenation Rank 5
Nature's Swiftness Rank 1
Subtlety Rank 5
Improved Regrowth Rank 5
Innervate Rank 1

PS2: Imba Druids , we rule ^^

[Scorch]

I don't think I've ever included Subtley since beta, cause it's a pure PvE skill and not a great one at that, and that's 5 points I'd much rather spend on something else more useful. Aggro is something I regard as SEP (Somebody Else's Problem). I'll do my job (healing) and I trust my tanks to do theirs (holding aggro) :wink:

[KJunk]

My original build (healer/instance bitch) was 11 balance 40 restoration.. this was back before barkskin anyway. It included subtlety.

The only time I really noticed it helping much was on those regrowth crits ya have to toss sometimes early in a pull that get you owned aggro wise. I usually didn't have to deal with that problem. Now I kinda do.

Scorch, how've you been doing in solo pvp lately against other people in end-game gear? Not having many options for dps upgrades (and having existing ones taken away on test) from MC gear has left me kinda stuttering out. Combine that with the dominance of mortal strike in group pvp.. and things aren't looking so hot in end-game druidville.

[Scorch]

Solo PVP is dead :(

[Zanatar]

Scorch:

I am contemplating following your Cat Form Build (AkA The Master Grinder). as you mention in your guide found on the original post of this thread.

Please don't take this as an attack in anyway, but instead simply as an observation But something I am curious about. Since you say that this build, due to Feral being useless in the end game, is only good until lvl 40 or 45, then why do you have the build listed in it's completion ie: 8/27/16 which means to achieve this you need to go all the way to lvl 60.

I think most people who read your guide, such as myself, understand your point that it is only good until lvl 40-45 and to then respec to the restorative build. So following that advice, we will never be able to complete the build you've listed. Since that build requires you go through to 60 with it.

So what I am saying is, since this Cat Form Build, is meant as a solo leveling guide. I am sure others here, and very much so myself included, would LOVE to see you add your recommendation on what order to take the talents in the Cat Form Build, so that it is as effective as possible by the time we reach lvl 40-45 , prior to respec to Primary Healer build.

I would really love to hear what you would recommend within this build, which talents to take in order, from lvl 10-45.

Thank you so much for your hard work and time put into this.

Thanks, Zanatar.

[Molakar]

Your critical strike chance raises with your weaponskill, so when you have 300/300 in a weapon you will have your highest critchance. Just noticed that when you hit bear or catform and have the +5% crit talent you just gain the critchance from your weaponskill and not your "true" critchance, i.e if you have 58/100 in 2h mace and have 10% crit and shift to cat then you have 15% critchance instead of having the "full" critchance. Is this a bugg or is it intended? I think it's a downside because when you grind you are in catform and you are rarely in casterform and can't increase your weaponskill so much.

[Scorch]

So what I am saying is, since this Cat Form Build, is meant as a solo leveling guide. I am sure others here, and very much so myself included, would LOVE to see you add your recommendation on what order to take the talents in the Cat Form Build, so that it is as effective as possible by the time we reach lvl 40-45 , prior to respec to Primary Healer build.

I would really love to hear what you would recommend within this build, which talents to take in order, from lvl 10-45.

Thank you so much for your hard work and time put into this.

Thanks, Zanatar.

Well I don't know how other people approached it, but when I was leveling I figured since Cat wasn't available till 20 there wasn't any point to Feral talents till then, so I went with 5 in N's Grasp, 5 in iMotW. Then at 20 I started on Feral; the important talents were Ferocity, Blood Frenzy, and Feline Swiftness, so I beelined for those and filled in the rest in between.

[Zanatar]

Scorch Please see my thread I've started: called " Need advice from all you druids (from Scorch especially). " I don't want to steal the thunder out of this thread so thought it would be best that I start one.

Thanks,
Zanatar.

[Marty]

How are Druids able to boost their damage output in Bearform? Is it strength equip that does it?

Im also curious about the ratio between damage/armor/life

Fx. should one go for Cloak of Warden or just go for the pvp cloak that has a somewhat nice armor count + 17 stamina?

Shall be said im going for 2 types of equipment, my sologear, and my instancegear, and its my sologear im curious about, I have my own thoughts about it, but I would greatly appreciate constructive input :)

[KJunk]

Strength/Attack Power (they're the same thing really) and Crit% will be what ups your bear damage.

Honestly, it takes far too much investment for far too little payoff to bother with upping the damage on our feral forms. Keep your mana and your HP.

[Athrun]

i just noticed http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=343879&s=blizzard&tmp=1#blizzard this thread here, about 1.7 changes, by caydiem.
Might be worth looking into if you haven't yet.
(Yeah i'm late noticing them so you probably have already)

[Scorch]

Until they understand the simple concept that having a melee form that is independent of weapon DPS is unsustainable, Druids will remain gimped.

[KJunk]

But Scorch, you mean our melee damage can't scale along with content/defensive items with just our stats alone?!

That's all rogues and warriors get! Oh and weapons. Shit.

But hey, they're bumping the base damage on cat form up a bit. That'll help for a month or so.

[Nupe]

But hey, they're bumping the base damage on cat form up a bit. That'll help for a month or so.


Increasing the base damage of cat form will not suffice at all. The Druid's melee will be subpar until the Druid gets to benefit from a weapon's DPS like every other melee class in wow.

[KJunk]

But hey, they're bumping the base damage on cat form up a bit. That'll help for a month or so.


Increasing the base damage of cat form will not suffice at all. The Druid's melee will be subpar until the Druid gets to benefit from a weapon's DPS like every other melee class in wow.
I was being sarcastic. It's a terrible momentary attempt at fixing a flawed design.

[Scorch]

I seem to remember writing a /suggest back in beta when the Druid came out, about this completely obvious flaw, a year later the best they can do is offer 2 dps increases to cat form every third patch apparently.

[BarryManilow]

what do you guys think the most efficent druid heal is? im healbot specced on my 60 druid alt...38 resto 13 balaance

guildies say its rank 6 healing touch? they also disagree w/ the spirit build and think intel is still most important for a druid

[KJunk]

Anyone done any testing to confirm the rumor that mana/sec regen doesn't work while in form?

[Darkone]

Hey all this is a build I'm thinking of useing what do you all think?

Balance Talents (31 points)


Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.

Level 18: Entangling Roots (Rank 2)
Level 28: Entangling Roots (Rank 3)
Level 38: Entangling Roots (Rank 4)
Level 48: Entangling Roots (Rank 5)
Level 58: Entangling Roots (Rank 6)


Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.


Improved Moonfire - 5/5 points
Increases the damage and critical strike chance of your Moonfire spell by 10%.


Nature's Reach - 2/2 points
Increases the range of your Wrath, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire (caster form only), Moonfire, and Starfire spells by 20%.


Improved Entangling Roots - 3/3 points
Gives you a 100% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting Entangling Roots.


Improved Starfire - 5/5 points
Gives your Starfire spell a 15% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.


Omen of Clarity - 1/1 point
Imbue the Druid's weapon with natural energy. Each hit has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Clearcasting state. The Clearcasting state reduces the Mana cost of your next damage or healing spell by 100%. The Omen of Clarity enchantment lasts 5 minutes.


Moonglow - 1/5 point
Reduces the Mana cost of your Moonfire and Starfire spells by 2%.


Moonfury - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your Starfire and Moonfire spells by 10%.


Nature's Grace - 1/1 point
Your critical strikes with the Wrath, Starfire, and Moonfire spells grace you with a blessing of nature, reducing the casting time of your next Regrowth or Healing Touch spell by 1 second.


Weapon Balance - 1/5 point
Increases the damage you deal with melee weapons by 2%.


Vengeance - 1/5 point
Increases the critical strike damage of your Starfire, Moonfire, and Wrath spells by 20%.


Hurricane - 1/1 point
Creates a violent storm in the area surrounding the caster, causing 53 Nature damage to all nearby enemies every 1 second, and reducing the attack speed of all nearby enemies by 20%. Lasts 10 seconds. Druid must channel to maintain the spell.

Level 50: 75 damage every 1 second
Level 60: 101 damage every 1 second




Feral Combat Talents (0 points)


None


Restoration Talents (20 points)


Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.


Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.


Improved Healing Touch - 5/5 points
Reduces the mana cost of your Healing Touch spell by 15%.


Gift of Nature - 1/1 point
Increases the effect of your Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Tranquility spells by 5%.


Combat Endurance - 2/5 points
Allows 4% of your Health regeneration to work while in combat.


Improved Rejuvenation - 2/5 points
Increases the effect of your Rejuvenation spell by 6%.

[Scorch]

What are you trying to do with it exactly?

[Darkone]

Trying to have some utility in heal while deal a good amount of damage.

[Scorch]

Even if you're going heavy into Balance, I'd really reconsider trying to put 1 point into everything and not enough points into anything.

Weapon Balance in particular is crap. So is Combat Endurance; go look at your character right now and see how many hps it regens per tick. Now multiply that by 0.04. Is it even 1 hp per tick? It also looks you're Moonfire heavy, if that's the case then just go for it all the way, dump the Starfire talent (which is mediocre at best anyway) and put them into Moonglow/Vengeance.

As for Restoration, Nature's Focus has limited appeal when you're not getting Nature's Swiftness, put them into one of the improved healing talents instead.

[FallenDevil]

I wanted to chime in again. tho scorch has this druid thing on lock, other people have other needs and wants with their druids.

I have done every build listed by scorch mainly because they are listed by scorch. But i have also tried my own variation. i even tried a dreadful 3 tree build. 21 resto 11 feral 20 balance. It wasnt totally terrible but didnt have enuff healing enuff damage or enuff mana all together...high end. I hate being a heal bot. But when your group/raid needs a healer instead of a tank mage or whatever to have something that can heal really damn well. It is kinda sad to see such a versitle class being called to do nothing but heal/decurse all raid long. So if you are in a raiding guild or plan to go to MC or whatever please don't complain when they ask why you arent at least 31 resto.

Damn i need to update my sig

[Scorch]

I actually have high hopes for the Druid talent rejuggling next patch. The warlock and hunter talent fixes seem to have worked out okay, we'll see how the Druid fix goes. Though the whole healbot thing now is so prevalent I don't see how the perception will change, unless they nerfed the fuck out of the Restoration tree or something.

[FallenDevil]

Wouldnt that just be the truest irony. Nerf balance and feral....and then resto...and then return balance or feral. a Gm should seriously pay me to respec. damn this just gives me nightmares...

[Athrun]

severe talent tree changes patches will give you a free respec

[NakedSavage]

Anyone have a short list of fire resist gear I should start looking into? I'm just starting to run MC on a fairly regular basis. The only things of note that I have right now are the Royal Seal from the DM class book, and Salamander Scale Pants. I should be able to get FR for shoulders from Argent Dawn soon, and I'll have a cloak enchanted.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

[kary]

Unless you're going to MT you don't need FR for MC. Having 80 or so on Rag wouldn't hurt, but nothing to get worked up over.

Vael on the other hand.

[Scorch]

Rag himself isn't that bad but his sons will 2 or 3 shot you if you don't have fire resist. As a healer my job during Rag got 10x easier once everyone else got fire resist gear. When we first started I'd run out of mana healing before the first sons, nowadays (when I can actually make raids) I don't have that much problem keeping 5 people up by myself till the end.

This is basically what I throw on for Rag/Vael, it's not that hard to get. A lot of greens/blues.

Cenarion Helm
Drakefire Amulet (Onyxia)
Ring from Waterlords quest
Ring of Binding (Onyxia)
Royal Seal (Dire Maul)
Fireproof Cloak (Domo) or Onyxia Cloak
Flamescarred Girdle (20 fire resist, from Maleki the Pallid in Strath)

With those on top of my purples I've got 160 fire res, which is basically enough for BWL (so far).

[kyliejennings]

new talents are up cool yo

what do u think of this scorch

Level Required: 60
Points Spent: 51
Balance (reset): 21
Feral Combat (reset): 0
Restoration (reset): 30
printable version
save template reset all

Balance Talents - 21 points
Nature's Grasp rank 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp rank 4/4
Improved Moonfire rank 5/5
Improved Thorns rank 3/3
Nature's Reach rank 2/2
Vengeance rank 5/5
Nature's Grace rank 1/1




Restoration Talents - 30 points
Improved Mark of the Wild rank 5/5
Furor rank 0/5
Improved Healing Touch rank 5/5
Nature's Focus rank 5/5
Improved Enrage rank 0/2
Reflection rank 0/3
Insect Swarm rank 1/1
Subtlety rank 0/5
Tranquil Spirit rank 5/5
Improved Rejuvenation rank 0/3
Nature's Swiftness rank 1/1
Gift of Nature rank 3/5
Improved Tranquility rank 0/2
Improved Regrowth rank 5/5


im thinking mostly for pvp kinda stuff swich out innervate for Nature's Grace. so you have 50% to crit on regrowth then follow up with Healing Touch with a 2.5 sec cast time.

sounds cool to me whatca think?

[f1reburn]

the new talents are awesome. I need some time to think clearly about it, but I'm too hyped right now :D


ahh, english talent calculator online:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/1p8/druid/talents.html

[arch]

IMO Innervate still > all.

[kyliejennings]

IMO Innervate still > all.

imo innervate is a pve skill.

[Athrun]

Moonkin form will make a more effective way of moonfire spam be possible. focussing less on armor and more on intel with armor.
enrage has been changed as well btw, noticed after taking a quick glance

[Athrun]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=433325&s=blizzard&tmp=1#blizzard
look at caydiem's talent builds.
It's official they have no clue what they're talking about imo.

[Scorch]

IMO Innervate still > all.

imo innervate is a pve skill.

It sort of is, but like in AB for example I don't have time to sit and drink while running from flag to flag so I use it quite a lot.

What about http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?0140000000000000505202030320215155500 0000000000

:lol:

[Athrun]

Actually I've been thinking, Caydiem's logic may not be that bad.
Omen of clarity will be good with several cat and bear skills, but especcially with cat skills, since it will proc a lot for attacks costing no energy, which will also deliver combo points faster.
Any way to figure out at which percentage Omen of Clarity procs, or anyone knows?

[Waffle Crisp]

What about http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?0140000000000000505202030320215155500 0000000000

:lol:
"Yeah, I don't need to be able to heal anyway, bear form just has too much armor for me to need it." Also love the 31 points in Feral but no Feral Charge, haha.

Anyway, is the new druid talent tree even an improvement over the old one at all? Although a ton of talents have been straight-up improved, other ones seem strangely worse than before, and it seems like the way builds come together is going to be more awkward than before. Or is the new talent tree just so unfamiliar that I don't understand it yet? Random thoughts:

Moonkin Form: This is sure to spawn a new legion of bad players pointlessly spamming moonfire in group PvP on my server, so it seems like more of a newbie trap to me than anything else. I assume neo-kitty form will be better for solo ganking, and why else would you be messing around with Moonfire spam? Also locks you out of Nature's Swiftness, etc. Plus, moonkins are just stupid-looking. ;) It seems to me that Admiral Ackbar is right -- "It's a trap!"

Priest Lite (a.k.a. 30+ in Resto): Hope you like Healing Touch, because you're kinda pigeonholed into using it now. Kylie's idea of trying to crit Regrowth with Gift of Nature is interesting, although it takes so much Balance that you have to make big concessions like Feral Charge and other Resto talents that would otherwise be quite good (e.g. Reflection, Imp. Rejuv, etc.).

Swiftshifter wannabe: Is this idea any good for smaller groups? The idea is to try to get feral forms that don't completely suck, particularly kitty form, while retaining key abilities, like popping out to Nature's Swiftness a heal.

Balance (12 total)
5 - Improved Nature's Grasp
5 - Natural Weapons
1 - Natural Shapeshifter (impossible to put more here without breaking something else)
1 - Omen of Clarity

Feral Combat (18 total)
5 - Ferocity
2 - Brutal Impact
3 - Feral Instinct (or whatever)
1 - Feral Charge
2 - Feline Swiftness
3 - Sharpened Claws
2 - Predatory Strikes

Restoration (21 total)
5 - Furor
5 - Improved Healing Touch (kinda awkward in this build, but no choice)
5 - Nature's Focus
1 - Insect Swarm
2 - Improved Enrage (or whatever)
2 - Improved Rejuvenation (or whatever)
1 - Nature's Swiftness

Even that build might suck, since Swiftshifting went bye-bye, so instead of 60% cheaper shapeshifts, it's only 10%. :?

Maybe druids' best option will continue to be as Priest Jr. after all... Or am I missing something?

[Athrun]

i think the top end feral talents are a nice improvement, but the 31 point talent is underpowered, or should just be not geared towards team, but towards solo.

[FallenDevil]

the tier 7 feral talent may have more ranks to it. Hurricane being a learned talent rocks. even if it thru a quest line. moonkin is strange but interesting. 21 resto is still a must imo. but i believe my 3 tree build will actually work now.

[Mylar]

i think the top end feral talents are a nice improvement, but the 31 point talent is underpowered, or should just be not geared towards team, but towards solo.

because druids really need more solo power, YARLY

[Athrun]

wtf is yarly? and yeah druids could get some more dps.

[Scorch]

I see 31 Feral as the only alternative to 31 Restoration if you want to maintain any sort of PvE viability. The crit aura in a rogue group is quite decent, and I think it's the only way people would let a non-Restoration Druid in a raid group. Why not 31 Balance? Well,

1) Group-wise, 3% melee crit is far better than 3% spell crit. Bearing in mind the scaling of melee weapons vs. spell damage right now, and also if you've ever seen the mage calculations you'll see that crit is far less effective than +spell damage. For melee, crit is way more important. And also, melee crit is +100%, while spell crit is +50%.

2) Moonfire Spam™ was already a borderline strategy 6 months ago. Why? Spell damage stays basically static, but people's HPs are increasing all the time. Even if you load up on +spell damage gear, the fact that Moonfire is an instant spell with low initial damage in the first place really dampens the effectiveness of that gear. Nowadays even Mages are packing 5k HPs, so Moonfire hasn't exactly scaled elegantly with relation to people's gear nowadays.

3) Feral forms don't use mana to attack (though there's some cost in shifting, you regen some of it while in form), while Moonkin form does. Yes this is kind of obvious but since people will still expect you to heal, since you're a Druid, this can be a big deal. We all know how much mana Moonfire Spamming™ takes; once you're out of mana, you can no longer Heal OR Moonfire. Feral on the other hand doesn't have the problem. It's always been DPS that's been Feral's downfall, but that particular gap is narrowing for the moment, so it might be viable for the first time with these talents.

[RubiksCube]

I'll go 31 Feral next patch, simply because of the tier 6 talent Heart of the Wild.

The way all druids are used to play, is to switch equip depending on the situation.

Heart of the Wild gives you 20% Extra Int in Casterform, 20% Extra Stam in Bearform and 20% Extra Str. in Catform. In my current playing style, I use Cat/Bear for PvP mostly, with the occasinal moonfire (I'm 9/21/21 specced). In MC/BWL I use caster gear (4/8 Cenarion, 4/8 Wildheart atm), so this talent will give me 20% more Mana than a druid with similar equip, while still letting me be extremly effective in group and solo pvp with my feral equip.

The Built I'll probably try first is 31 Feral, 15 Balance, 5 Restoration and I'd like some feedback on that built:


Minimum Required Level: 60
Required Talent Points: 51
Balance Talents - 15 points

Improved Wrath - rank 5/5


Nature's Grasp - rank 1/1


Natural Weapons - rank 5/5


Natural Shapeshifter - rank 3/3


Omen of Clarity - rank 1/1



Feral Combat Talents - 31 points

Ferocity - rank 5/5


Feral Aggression - rank 5/5


Feline Swiftness - rank 2/2


Feral Charge - rank 1/1


Sharpened Claws - rank 3/3


Improved Shred - rank 2/2


Predatory Strikes - rank 3/3


Blood Frenzy - rank 2/2


Savage Fury - rank 2/2


Heart of the Wild - rank 5/5


Leader of the Pack - rank 1/1



Restoration Talents - 5 points

Furor - rank 5/5


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?5100053010000000550002132320205105000 0000000000

[Scorch]

I like that one, iMotW is tough to give up espcially for MC/BWL but if there's any place to cut I guess it's there.

[RubiksCube]

Yea, I don't like giving that up either, but I didn't know where to cut elsewhere. Natural Shapeshifter is 30% manacosts and Natural Weapons is 10% more damage.

I tried to come up with a built similar to 9/21/21, tried to get feline swiftness, omen of clarity and natures swiftness, sorta best of all worlds, featuring imp healing touch, which is a huge improvement.

Here's what I came up with, you can vary the points in blood frenzy and put them in natural shapeshifter. Care to give an opinion?



Balance Talents - 12 points

Nature's Grasp - Rang 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp - Rang 4/4
Natural Weapons - Rang 5/5
Natural Shapeshifter - Rang 1/3
Omen of Clarity - Rang 1/1

Feral Combat Talents - 18 points

Ferocity - Rang 5/5
Feral Aggression - Rang 5/5
Feline Swiftness - Rang 2/2
Feral Charge - Rang 1/1
Sharpened Claws - Rang 3/3
Blood Frenzy - Rang 2/2


Restoration Talents - 21 points

Improved Mark of the Wild - Rang 5/5
Furor - Rang 5/5
Improved Healing Touch - Rang 5/5
Nature's Focus - Rang 5/5
Nature's Swiftness - Rang 1/1


I guess, all you can do is try them all on the testserver, only problem is the european testservers don't let you copy your own character, only Archetypes with full wildheart.

As smart as Blizz Europe is, they'll prolly forget about feral gear for that alltogether, seeing as how they didn't even give warriors a one-handed weapon when the fury changes went test.

Oh, and btw, you CAN cast wrath in Moonkin Form. Anything that is counted as a balance spell. Look at your spell book ingame, you'll see wrath, entangling roots, etc. are listed under balance ;)

[NakedSavage]

I'm wondering how Omen of Clarity is going to play out. I'd never spec into it before, since melee was pretty much suicide, but now that it will effect Feral forms it seems much more useful. One problem I see, though, is that it now appears to be a self buff, instead of a weapon buff. It now reads "Imbues the Druid with natural energy..." instead of "the Druid's weapon". If this is the case it may be dispellable, and not as useful in PvP as it appeared to be initially.

[Scorch]

Omen was always like Windfury, a weapon buff, so it's non-dispellable afaik. I wonder if it'll be castable in feral form in 1.8, or is that too much to hope for?


Oh, and btw, you CAN cast wrath in Moonkin Form. Anything that is counted as a balance spell. Look at your spell book ingame, you'll see wrath, entangling roots, etc. are listed under balance ;)

Yeah I had a brain cramp, I was thinking Balance = Arcane for some reason.

[byto]

from an ex-rogues mind the new omen of clarity sounds awesome for spaming the anytime style in feral cat form. whats the proc rate on this one?

[Mupod]

I wouldn't underestimate moonkin form. From what I hear it's going to use your weapon DPS...even without a warden staff I'd be around 9k armor in that form come 1.8. 9000 armor swinging around a lava dredger, proccing omen of clarity, with improved thorns just for the hell of it. Kind of scary.

Also, I don't see how I could NOT take the chance to be a dancing moonfire spam chicken bear.

The only thing keeping me away from feral is simply that I don't have any epic gear with feral stats on it. My old feral gear is still in the bank but I'm not going to take off my cenarion and put on shadowcraft. And I sure as hell don't have the free time to get myself from first sergeant to warlord.

Anyways...on with the talent specs

Feral PVP kittybear:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?0140053010000000503202130322215105000 0000000000

Spamkin:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?0140550312551251000000000000000050050 0100000000

Who cares about PVP I do mad DPS in molten core:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids2/talents.html?5000053011000000550002032320215105000 0000000000

[NakedSavage]

Omen was always like Windfury, a weapon buff, so it's non-dispellable afaik. I wonder if it'll be castable in feral form in 1.8, or is that too much to hope for?
With some luck I may be able to find the thread on the official forums, but I'm 99% sure it's been confirmed that Omen is now a self-buff, not a weapon buff, and will proc in Feral forms, giving you a free Maul, Swipe, etc. This would explain the change in the ability's tooltip I mentioned in my last post- it now says "The Druid" and not "The Druid's weapon". That's why I'm wondering if it would be dispellable, which would really suck if you wanted to spec for it :(

-EDIT-
That didn't take long (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=433741&p=#post433741). Caydiem says:

It does proc in Feral forms now, but I'm not certain if you can shift out and use it to heal. It stands to reason that you could, but I'm not positive.

[Athrun]

the feral 31 point talent aura appears to stack on the test server.

[RubiksCube]

"Your Ferocious Bite crits XXX for 2375 Damage."


From the european testservers, meaning full wildheart.

Naked Cat, fully skilled hast 84 DPS and 13.something crit.

[byto]

stupid question: whats the stats for attackpower in cat form? is it 1 atk / 1 agi + 1 atk / 1 str or is it only str or agi dependend ? i heart something that its only str now both in cat and bear form, is that true?

[Elan]

Stats for cat form are 1 STR = 2 ATK, 1 AGI = 1 ATK, plus the bonus for shifting. Strength is still better overall for raw Attack Power, but if you want to get giggly with crits and dodge, Agility is good too. I'm getting some pretty nice 1200+ crits on ravage (1.7 restore build) with AV gear and some miscellaneous blues.

[John]

I admit that the new talent build is a damn brainteaser and gives me big headache. I only wish i had 93 points to spend :lol: . To make thinks more clear , at least in my head, i`d like to ask some questions.

a)Till now the 31 restoration was out of question. How many of u r going realy to give up this?

b)Realy after playing so long i still cant find cat form usefull at all (exept for stealth :P ). Even if cat form become as good as rogue i still find bear better (i don`t want to analyze this now). How far do i fall here?

c)From a 1st thought i`ve come up to the following build:

Restoration Talents - 31 points
-----------------------------------------------------
Improved Mark of the Wild rank 5/5
Improved Healing Touch rank 5/5
Nature's Focus rank 5/5
Reflection rank 3/3
Insect Swarm rank 1/1
Tranquil Spirit rank 5/5
Nature's Swiftness rank 1/1
Improved Regrowth rank 5/5
Innervate rank 1/1

Feral Combat Talents - 20 points
-----------------------------------------------------
Ferocity rank 5/5
Brutal Impact rank 2/2
Thick Hide rank 4/5
Feral Charge rank 1/1
Sharpened Claws rank 3/3
Predatory Strikes rank 3/3
Primal Fury rank 2/2


But i realy would like so much fit in and Heart of the Wild. OMG I`m gonna blow.

[Scorch]

After a bit of messing around on the test server here's my tentative 31 restoration build:

Balance Talents - 8 points
Nature's Grasp rank 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp rank 4/4
Natural Shapeshifter rank 3/3

Feral Combat Talents - 11 points
Ferocity rank 5/5
Thick Hide rank 5/5
Feral Charge rank 1/1

Restoration Talents - 32 points
Improved Mark of the Wild rank 5/5
Improved Healing Touch rank 5/5
Improved Enrage rank 1/2
Reflection rank 3/3
Insect Swarm rank 1/1
Tranquil Spirit rank 5/5
Nature's Swiftness rank 1/1
Gift of Nature rank 5/5
Improved Regrowth rank 5/5
Innervate rank 1/1

what do you think

[byto]

looks nice, but i would get 2 brutal impact, 3 thick hide instead of 5 thick hide imo.

i've got a question about savage fury:

does the 20% dmg increase only calc on the style bonus damage or does it add on top of the whole damage of the styles listed?

e.g. damage on claw rank 5 is: base dmg + 115

with savage fury, is it base dmg + 115*1.2 or (base dmg + 115)*1.2 ? i hope its the second ;)

[NakedSavage]

After a bit of messing around on the test server here's my tentative 31 restoration build:

....

what do you think
I've been struggling with a build for a while, and one (of several) I've come up with is fairly close to that, btu I'm still not 100% happy with it. Here's a few questions that you can probably answer, as I haven't respecced this guy many times.

I currently have Improved Regrowth and do notice that it crits quite a bit. I've never played around with any of the Subtlety talents. Do you think playing around with Subtlety is worth losing the crit chance of Improved Regrowth? Is a 20% threat reduction that noticable? Situationally I can see it helping in zerg-type encounters, for example with Jindo & Panther where there are many free roaming mobs, but other than that I'm not so sure. I know of some guilds on Archimonde that require Priests and Druids to spec subtlety, but I also know that a lot of spec requirements for certain classes aren't at all necessary, so I don't really buy in to a lot of it.

Tranquility- I do use it, but not that much. I do notice that it generates quite a bit of threat. It also appears that by speccing Subtlety and Improved Tranquility in 1.8 you can have a zero-threat group heal. With the reduced mana cost and cooldown (25% less mana, 5 min cooldown) in 1.8 do you think it'll be used enough to justify spending 2 points to reduce threat? I'm sure it can make life easier, but I'm not certain it's worth the points.

I'm going 2/2 Improved Bash and 3/5 Thick Hide. That extra stun duration has made a huge difference for me enough times where I'll really miss it.

I don't like not having Furor with Feral Charge, but it doesn't look like I have a choice without making a big sacrifice elsewhere in the tree. :( I'm considering carrying my Wolfshead around with me again just for PvP.

Here's my tentative build with Subtlety talents. Since I think I've only respecced 3 times on the live server it won't be expensive to change it up if I don't see subtlety making a noticible difference.

Balance Talents - 7 points
Nature's Grasp rank 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp rank 4/4
Natural Shapeshifter rank 2/3

Feral Combat Talents - 11 points
Ferocity rank 5/5
Brutal Impact rank 2/2
Thick Hide rank 3/5
Feral Charge rank 1/1

Restoration Talents - 33 points
Improved Mark of the Wild rank 5/5
Improved Healing Touch rank 5/5
Reflection rank 3/3
Insect Swarm rank 1/1
Subtlety rank 5/5
Tranquil Spirit rank 5/5
Nature's Swiftness rank 1/1
Gift of Nature rank 5/5
Improved Tranquility rank 2/2
Innervate rank 1/1

...or take a point from Improved Tranquility and go 3/3 Natural Shapeshifter

Maintainance has also been extended 2 hours today, so everyone seems to think we're getting 1.8.

[Elan]

Naked:

I would really consider taking Improved Regrowth over Gift of Nature. GoN has been nerfed pretty hard (used to be a 20th level 1-point talent for 5% to all heals, it's now a 30th level 5-point talent with less than half the efficiency it used to have). I think I would rather have a 50%+ chance to crit on regrowth, moreso if you PvP. 10% just isn't enough that deep in the tree, especially when priests get it at level 15.

Also, you're taking Natural Shapeshifter, but you don't have any points in furor, the best T1 talent of the restoration tree, especially if you plan to do at least some stuff in forms, which you obviously do with 11+ points in feral. Let me tell you this: I dropped subtlety months ago and can heal just fine without it. The panther encounter in ZG nullifies subtlety talents with the pseudo-hunter mark she puts on a random player. Heal all you want. I'd drop the 5 points you have there and put them into Furor. I've also begun to use Tranquility more, and haven't noticed any huge amount of aggro I generate, unless it's a screwed situation and we're going to wipe anyway. Take both points out of it, fill out Natural Shapeshifter, and put your last point where it can count... like Feline Swiftness.

[Scorch]

I think a case can be made that Improved Regrowth is the single best talent in all 3 trees, even better than Innervate when it comes down to it. It just completely changes the class IMO, and is the only reason Druids can give Priests a run for their money.

In fact I think it's why most smart Druids will still go back Restoration spec after the patch. Base Regrowth is just so underpowered that Improved Regrowth had to be stupidly overpowered to compensate for our complete lack of burst healing. What other class has a talent that comes close to having a primary spell crit an extra 50% of the time? I don't know if there's another spell in the game that crits more often than it doesn't. I remember back in beta it was in the 4th tier instead of the 6th and it was just like, insane. Anyway rant over. Enjoy the talent reshuffle everyone.

[John]

Nature`s Focus is also very important i think and now it`s 10% stronger. I cant imagine healing without it.

[byto]

it doesnt prevent you from being interrupted by things like kick, earth shock and stuff like that, so the use in pvp is limited imo.

[RubiksCube]

it doesnt prevent you from being interrupted by things like kick, earth shock and stuff like that, so the use in pvp is limited imo.

k, thinking that way healing in itself is of limited use in pvp, thx

[NakedSavage]

Scorch (or anyone with Feral Charge and 0/5 Furor)- How do you like Feral Charge without the instant rage on shifting? I've always had Furor up until now (and currently until I decide on a final spec).

I guess Enrage could be used for instant rage, but I've always been concerned about the decreased armow. When I think about it though, I probably use FC the most against kiting casters and runners who are almost dead anyway, so I guess the armor decrease isn't much to worry about. Just wondering what people with experience think.

[byto]

it doesnt prevent you from being interrupted by things like kick, earth shock and stuff like that, so the use in pvp is limited imo.

k, thinking that way healing in itself is of limited use in pvp, thx

where is the context to my post?

limited use != useless

[Elan]

I guess Enrage could be used for instant rage, but I've always been concerned about the decreased armow. When I think about it though, I probably use FC the most against kiting casters and runners who are almost dead anyway, so I guess the armor decrease isn't much to worry about. Just wondering what people with experience think.

Before 1.8, I was running with a 0/5 Furor Feral Charge, and it wasn't really that bad. Yeah, I had to hit Enrage if I wanted to catch someone. I've never noticed a huge problem with the armor reduction, and neither should you since you're using it for killing blows. The problem with Enrage is that you're waiting for the rage to build up before you can charge. This seems to take an eternity in PvP. You can do without Furor, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're going to be doing a lot of combat-form shifting.

[Scorch]

1 pt in Enrage now should be enough for Feral Charge... it's 1 global cooldown slower than Furor, but it's 4 talent points less.

[KJunk]

Actually for some reason I had no problems just Improved Enraging and immediately Feral Charging afterwards, without having to waiting for the global cooldown. Beats me, but it's a workable substitute.

[Genjo]

Forgive me if this has been asked but is predatory strikes viable in a grinding build?
I dont quite understand how it works as I have not gotten the talent yet but does it not give you 150% more ap?

[byto]

150% of your level. that means 90 ATK for a lvl 60 druid (60*1.5 = 90).

[Athrun]

30/14=dps from predatory strikes then

[Kronos]

I took a look at the Master Grinder build in the first post. Since the 1.8 patch, should that template change at all? I'm trying to level up a druid and I'll mainly be doing solo grinding. Should I follow that template exactly?

[Scorch]

No that's all really out of date, please don't read any of that...

I haven't done all the math on the new talents yet...

[Kronos]

Oh ok. Well when you find the time, I'd really appreciate it :)

[Scorch]

I updated the post with the talent changes... :wink:


On a completely unrelated note, if you Druids want a laugh:

http://www.worldofwar.net/journals/?id=799

This is Druid report I wrote after a week of playing one. During beta. In July 2004. That's how long I've been playing one... sigh. Bunch of really old stuff in there, like spammable taunt, no-mana regen in forms, Plainsrunning... remember Plainsrunning?

[Bovinity]

On your all-purpose feral spec, don't you miss NS? Always seemed like such a staple for druids, though I haven't played much since the changes.

[Ralrra]

What order would you reccomend taking talents in for leveling up?

I went straight down feral for my first 12 talents so I could get feline swiftness right when I got cat form (I hate running places, takes too damn long :P)

I was thinking I should get Nature's Grasp next, as I am on a pvp server and I'll start being in contested zones pretty soon. But after that I'm not sure.

[John]

I`m having hard time decing for what kind of equipment is our goal. mana regen. or +healing is better? Our epic set`s bonuses seem so suckage. Scorch what king of equipment u mainly use? Cenarion , Stormrage or a mix of these and other drops?





PS : Pfff l8tly I`m having troubles killing Warriors and Palas , and as i remember some months ago i was never loosing from them.

[Scorch]

I miss NS dearly but when you're that heavily invested into Feral there's no way to get NS. It's not just a matter of dropping Leader of the Pack (which is doable), but you'd also have to drop either Nature's Grasp or Heart of the Wild as well. That's just heartbreaking to lose those in a Feral build. I don't have NS any more so I tend die a lot when I shouldn't be, but with Barkskin, reduced HT casting and Nature's Focus, I just make due. I don't know, it's up to your playing styles.


I`m having hard time decing for what kind of equipment is our goal. mana regen. or +healing is better? Our epic set`s bonuses seem so suckage. Scorch what king of equipment u mainly use? Cenarion , Stormrage or a mix of these and other drops?

Well just use whatever you can get your hands on... I think over 3 of m 5 bags are completely filled with backup equipment. Feral gear, healing gear, PvP gear, PvE gear, resist gear, 5 different weapons I swap in and out... Stormrage seems generally better than Cenarion but the two sets have different resists, so depending on what boss you're fighting you'd want to switch, ie. Cenarion Helm has fire resist, so wear that for Onyxia and Rag, etc. but swap that out for Stormrage helm for normal PvE.


PS : Pfff l8tly I`m having troubles killing Warriors and Palas , and as i remember some months ago i was never loosing from them.

That's cause Warriors have gone from Arcanite Reapers to Askhandis in the time it took Druids to go from Wildheart to Stormrage... oh look, an extra 6 spirit and 8 int or whatever. Whoopee!

[John]

I discorvered that I am a bit confused about how mana regeneration works.
I thought mana regeneration is o% on combat exept if u got Reflection :roll: The confusion started when i saw some the good druids of my server going for +spirit enchants. So I`m gonna make 3-4 question.

1) When u r off combat the spirit how much mana regen gives u / some secs ?
2) When u r on combat the regeneration is the same exept the time u r casting , or 5 sec after u cast a spell?
3) Innervate gives u 400% reg while not casting and 100% for 5sec after u cast a spell? or u get all the time the 400% of ur 100% mana reg (as u r off combat)?
4) Reflection isnt a must?

I am confused cause dif ppl say me dif things and more dif things i see happening on my char when i try to count the result (maybe because of the ping).

[Scorch]

I discorvered that I am a bit confused about how mana regeneration works.
I thought mana regeneration is o% on combat exept if u got Reflection :roll: The confusion started when i saw some the good druids of my server going for +spirit enchants. So I`m gonna make 3-4 question.

1) When u r off combat the spirit how much mana regen gives u / some secs ?
2) When u r on combat the regeneration is the same exept the time u r casting , or 5 sec after u cast a spell?
3) Innervate gives u 400% reg while not casting and 100% for 5sec after u cast a spell? or u get all the time the 400% of ur 100% mana reg (as u r off combat)?
4) Reflection isnt a must?

I am confused cause dif ppl say me dif things and more dif things i see happening on my char when i try to count the result (maybe because of the ping).

1) Something like 13 + (spirit/5). The 13 might be a bit off.
2) 5 seconds
3) I think it's 5 seconds, maybe someone can correct me.
4) Depends on how much spirit you have.

[syndt]

Druids:
Mana regen per tick = Spirit/5 + 15

Everyone else:
Mana regen per tick = Spirit/4 + 10

The tooltip for innervate is a bit vague and unclear -- it's 400% of your normal regen rate and 100% of that 400% while under the 5 second rule.

About reflection: It basically comes down to how you play your character. A lot of druids tend to spam lower ranks of HT on the MT, resulting in them being under the 5 second rule a lot. So, many Druids opt to build up mana/5 gear instead of going for high spirit. If, however, you're part of a heal bank that gets a significant break not under the 5 second rule, then heavy spirit and reflection are good.

Personally, I'd reccomend going for mana/5 gear for pve raiding, and spirit for pvp (note that mana/5 doesn't affect us while in feral forms)

[md5]

This is the talent tree I'm currently aiming for (feral druid). I'm going for a 14/31/6 build, which is not "the norm" but it looks ok (at least it does on paper). Omen's proc rate isn't that bad (at least from what I've seen). I've got 4 on feral instinct to get fairy fire (feral) which I believe is well worth the point (as it's free to cast and great for pulling mobs). You can put 5 on it and remove the point from imp. enrage, but imp enrage allows for instant feral charge, which is simply great. NS is great but it does need imp healing touch, which imho is not that great. Nature's focus would be great to have too, but there are not enough points for it with this build - plus, I believe that natural shapeshifter is far more useful. I've used feral instinct instead of feral aggresion as it's good for tanking plus it does make prowl much better. This greatly depends on what you need more and your playing style, though

If you're horde, the tauren's warstomp will help a bit for the lack of NS, as it gives a couple of seconds to begin casting healing touch

Any thoughts are welcome



Balance Talents - 14 points
Nature's Grasp rank 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp rank 4/4
Natural Weapons rank 5/5
Natural Shapeshifter rank 3/3
Omen of Clarity rank 1/1

Feral Combat Talents - 31 points
Ferocity rank 5/5
Feral Instinct rank 4/5
Brutal Impact rank 2/2
Feline Swiftness rank 2/2
Feral Charge rank 1/1
Sharpened Claws rank 3/3
Predatory Strikes rank 3/3
Blood Frenzy rank 2/2
Savage Fury rank 2/2
Faerie Fire (Feral) rank 1/1
Heart of the Wild rank 5/5
Leader of the Pack rank 1/1

Restoration Talents - 6 points
Furor rank 5/5
Improved Enrage rank 1/2

[Candelie]

Why would you put a point into Imp. Enrage when you already get 40 rage from your 5/5 furor upon shifting?

[Scorch]

It's 10 rage, 40 energy. With 1 pt in Imp. Enrage you can technically drop into Bear and instantly do a Charge/Bash. Plus the 5 instant rage lets you do an charge immediately even if you haven't shifted recently.

[Candelie]

My bad, and point taken.

[md5]

This is the build I've ended up getting, all opinions welcome:


Balance Talents - 11 points
Nature's Grasp rank 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp rank 4/4
Natural Weapons rank 5/5
Omen of Clarity rank 1/1

Feral Combat Talents - 31 points
Ferocity rank 5/5
Feral Instinct rank 4/5
Brutal Impact rank 2/2
Feline Swiftness rank 2/2
Feral Charge rank 1/1
Sharpened Claws rank 3/3
Predatory Strikes rank 3/3
Blood Frenzy rank 2/2
Savage Fury rank 2/2
Faerie Fire (Feral) rank 1/1
Heart of the Wild rank 5/5
Leader of the Pack rank 1/1

Restoration Talents - 10 points
Furor rank 5/5
Nature's Focus rank 4/5

I've dumped Natural Shapeshifter (3 points) and Improved Enrage (1 point) to get 4 points in Nature's Focus

I like Scorch's build as well, however I believe that a lot of points have to be spent to get NS, which can be spent at better talents. Leader of the pack + Omen + Natural weapons seems a better choice than Nature's Swiftness to me...

[RubiksCube]

In hinsight on endgame raiding, I've tried to come up with an Innervate / Feral Build and I'd like to know what you people think of it:

Balance (1 point)

1/1 Nature's Grasp

Feral Combat (19 points)

5/5 Ferocity
5/5 Feral Aggression
2/2 Feline Swiftness
1/1 Feral Charge
3/3 Sharpened Claws
3/3 Predatory Strikes

Restoration (31 points)

5/5 Improved Mark of the Wild
5/5 Furor
5/5 Improved Healing Touch
1/1 Insect Swarm
5/5 Tranquil Spirit
3/3 Improved Rejuvenation
1/1 Nature's Swiftness
5/5 Improved Regrowth
1/1 Innervate


http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?MzZE0MscZEx0oeoVo

[Fesan]

why would you go imp regrowth instead of gift of nature? (or even subtlety)
and why imp rejuv instead of a few points in natures focus (which i think is a must in pvp) or reflection for raiding?

just the few changes i think i would do :)

[RubiksCube]

I'd always go Imp Regrowth or not use regrowth ever. This talent is basically the only thing that makes regrowth worth it's mana cost imo.

I dunno about Nature's Focus, basically I won't spend much time in druid form to heal when someone is beating on me, I'll either tangle them or run until I can cast freely.

If anything I'd give Imp. MotW up, but than again I'll prolly need it when raiding.

[Molakar]

I have a question about Feral Agression. With 5/5 Feral Agression I'm getting 15% more damage to my Ferocius Bite.

Using Rank 1 Ferocius Bite as an example:

"1 Point: 60-76 damage
2 Points: 106-122 damage
3 Points: 152-168 damage
4 Points: 198-214 damage
5 Points: 244-260 damage

Also converts every extra point of energy into 1.0 damage."

So with 5/5 FA the tooltip should now show:

"1 Point: 69-91 damage
2 Points: 122-140 damage
3 Points: 175-193 damage
4 Points: 228-246 damage
5 Points: 258-299 damage

Also converts every extra point of energy into 1.15 damage."? I know that the tooltip doesn't update when I'm having 5/5 FA but I want to know if the energy that gets converted into x.x damage also get the 15% damageboost?